kujo Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1608671' date='Jul 25 2008, 10:30 PM']I do not understand why you must nearly always employ the tactic of belittling your rivals personally. I try very hard not to employ this tactic, with avoiding the use of "you" "your" "I" and the like, only using them where they are necessary. The above statement is not necessary. If you offer proof that is not questionable, I will concede to that truth.[/quote] I don't understand how SOME PEOPLE (no names) employ this tactic whenever he/she makes any comment and yet get away with it while the rest of us get called out on it always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycin Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1608671' date='Jul 25 2008, 09:30 PM']The point is ma'am the group is not some little group of regular folk, or just some teenager supporters with signs. Email him if you would like ma'am but do understand he would have a bias view. It was my understand that they had taken the photos, I would like to double check that by reading the blog but it is currently down as of this moment. Yes thank you, I do understand the concept of "grassroots campaign" and "official campaign". What I suggest that this group is connected to or affiliated with the official campaign, and not a completely independent group. But again the fact the police called it "His Campaign" leads one to believe that the official campaign had something to do with these banners. I do not understand why you must nearly always employ the tactic of belittling your rivals personally. I try very hard not to employ this tactic, with avoiding the use of "you" "your" "I" and the like, only using them where they are necessary. The above statement is not necessary. If you offer proof that is not questionable, I will concede to that truth.[/quote] 1) You are taking a list from kahal and making it unanimous with the israeli individuals that I'm talking about. This is false logic. Yes, they are partners, no, they are not one and the same. 2) They did take some photos, as did the press. The album I linked to contained the photos they took, the photos that the press has are different. If it was all the same, the press photos would be identical to some of the photos you find in the pic album I linked to; they are not. This is no different than other events in which excited participants are present with members of press. I will be taking pictures of my own when I go to March for Life, and I'm sure there will a couple pictures in the paper of this, as well. It's very commonplace. 3) A "bias view"? Give me a break. How would someone have a bias when answering questions of 1) How did you know Obama was gonna be there?, and 2) Was the press present? I mean really... what is there to be biased about? They are simple questions. Not to mention he would probably think I was a complete moron for asking if the press was there when it is very obvious that they were, but I am willing to risk that to prove a point. Haha. 4) The fact that you are giving so much weight to the quote of one police officer suggests your lack of actual evidence. The officer could have easily said "campaign" meaning "grassroots campaign", i.e., supporters, or, someone could have shortened his statement if he originally said "people campaigning for"... it happens all the time... I am unsure why you insist on bringing this up over and over when it is obviously not the definitive proof you're making it out to be. 5) I am not belittling you. I used sarcasm, and I apologize for that, because I have complained a lot about sarcasm and condescension being allowed to run a muck here at Phatmass. I don't want to contribute to that so I do apologize for the sarcasm... that said, I *have* offered proof and you are grasping at straws now instead of just saying, 'oh, maybe you're right.'... The proof that I have offered far outweighs your personal thoughts on the matter because I have taken screen shots and quoted sources and used the process of likelihood instead of just going off on something and blowing it up and speculating and stating things that may not be true (slander) as if they have any real basis in fact in order to try to defame someone's reputation. In my opinion, when you dismiss strong evidence against your own thoughts and refuse to admit the possibility that you're wrong, yes, you're remaining willfully ignorant. I'm not saying what you are suggesting is impossible, I am saying that the evidence I have provided builds a much more complete puzzle than going off of your theories which you have little-to-no evidence for, and therefore it is intellectually dishonest to continue to tote your opinions of the matter as if they are more likely to be the truth, especially when defamation of character is involved. Edited July 26, 2008 by Alycin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 [quote name='kujo' post='1608724' date='Jul 25 2008, 08:50 PM']I don't understand how SOME PEOPLE (no names) employ this tactic whenever he/she makes any comment and yet get away with it while the rest of us get called out on it always.[/quote] But I do not believe I use this tactic when I make 'any comment', I believe my practice of avoiding yous, and yours, helps prevent the use of such a tactic. However I could be wrong, and I know I have not been prefect, but I do not agree I do such a thing when I make 'any comment' or even most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycin Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 I'm done here by the way... permanent vacation starts now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1608748' date='Jul 25 2008, 10:58 PM']But I do not believe I use this tactic when I make 'any comment', I believe my practice of avoiding yous, and yours, helps prevent the use of such a tactic. However I could be wrong, and I know I have not been prefect, but I do not agree I do such a thing when I make 'any comment' or even most.[/quote] I never said you were one of those people, KoC. Though I find you to be stubborn, you are usually pretty respectful. We cool . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1608518' date='Jul 25 2008, 04:42 PM']A Jewish seminarian of all people violated one of the most holiest sites in Jerusalem! But the prayer itself is beautiful. May God grant Obama exactly what he asks for![/quote] You may have missed my point. Why, of all the famous and interesting people in the world who have left prayers at the wall, was only Barack Obama's violated and printed in a newspaper? I don't have the answer myself. I'm suggesting there is something strange about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 (edited) Yeah...I wondered about that myself....surely a Jewish seminarian would want to have read what Pope John Paul II left there....but that didn't happen.... things that make you go "hmmmmmm.........." Edited July 26, 2008 by dominicansoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 It's definitely an invasion of privacy, but what if some supporter or member of his *official campaign* thought leaking his private prayer would benefit him in some way, make him seem like a "normal guy" who just wants God to "look after his family" and stuff. I have no evidence to suggest this is what happened, just speculating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1608761' date='Jul 25 2008, 09:07 PM'] Yeah...I wondered about that myself....surely a Jewish seminarian would want to have read what Pope John Paul II left there....but that didn't happen.... things that make you go "hmmmmmm.........."[/quote] Exactly. And it's possible that many, many, many people in Jerusalem get curious and read those prayers when cameras and journalists are not around. But they are discreet enough not to report it to the newspaper. One thing I know about Obama that has been obvious from the start and more rampant in the past months, is that he is heck-bent on creating an "image" for the world. He is very ambitious and thus, very deceptive. Everything he does and says is for image. One example is how he reacts to criticism and personal affronts: he pretends to not be offended, and graciously accepts any apologies that come his way. But he stands by silently while his supporters lambast whomever it was that criticized him. So he comes away with his image untarnished and gets to look like the most amiable and forgiving of men. Right now, Obama desperately needs to appear as a humble man (after months of being accused of being uppity and arrogant), a faithful man (after numerous accusations that he's not a real Christian), and an honorable man (after months of being called a liar and a flip-flopper). The contents of this prayer that was posted in the newspaper seems rather too conveniently well-suited to that image. If you think I'm suggesting that Obama or his people may have leaked the contents of the prayer note, you would be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Alycin' post='1608729' date='Jul 25 2008, 08:51 PM']1) You are taking a list from kahal and making it unanimous with the israeli individuals that I'm talking about. This is false logic. Yes, they are partners, no, they are not one and the same.[/quote] They are actually the Founders of the group, 'Jews for Obama' is a daughter of KAHAI. [quote name='Alycin' post='1608729' date='Jul 25 2008, 08:51 PM']2) They did take some photos, as did the press. The album I linked to contained the photos they took, the photos that the press has are different. If it was all the same, the press photos would be identical to some of the photos you find in the pic album I linked to; they are not. This is no different than other events in which excited participants are present with members of press. I will be taking pictures of my own when I go to March for Life, and I'm sure there will a couple pictures in the paper of this, as well. It's very commonplace.[/quote] Very well I concede that the press took the photos and not the group, I was unclear on that anyway. This however does not conclude that there was not a secret visit that the group was tip off by the campaign. [quote name='Alycin' post='1608729' date='Jul 25 2008, 08:51 PM']3) A "bias view"? Give me a break. How would someone have a bias when answering questions of 1) How did you know Obama was gonna be there?, and 2) Was the press present? I mean really... what is there to be biased about? They are simple questions. Not to mention he would probably think I was a complete moron for asking if the press was there when it is very obvious that they were, but I am willing to risk that to prove a point. Haha.[/quote] It would be a bias view yes, by answering any questions on behalf of the group, he would be representing the group and will answer any questions in favor of the groups interest. Thus his statement would be questionable. [quote name='Alycin' post='1608729' date='Jul 25 2008, 08:51 PM']4) The fact that you are giving so much weight to the quote of one police officer suggests your lack of actual evidence. The officer could have easily said "campaign" meaning "grassroots campaign", i.e., supporters, or, someone could have shortened his statement if he originally said "people campaigning for"... it happens all the time... I am unsure why you insist on bringing this up over and over when it is obviously not the definitive proof you're making it out to be.[/quote] I am attempting to defend what the officer actually did say, against what maybe he 'could' have said 'if'. His actual words or quote backs my stance which is why you attempt to add to what he has stated. [quote name='Alycin' post='1608729' date='Jul 25 2008, 08:51 PM']5) I am not belittling you. I used sarcasm, and I apologize for that, because I have complained a lot about sarcasm and condescension being allowed to run a muck here at Phatmass. I don't want to contribute to that so I do apologize for the sarcasm... that said, I *have* offered proof and you are grasping at straws now instead of just saying, 'oh, maybe you're right.'... The proof that I have offered far outweighs your personal thoughts on the matter because I have taken screen shots and quoted sources and used the process of likelihood instead of just going off on something and blowing it up and speculating and stating things that may not be true (slander) as if they have any real basis in fact in order to try to defame someone's reputation. In my opinion, when you dismiss strong evidence against your own thoughts and refuse to admit the possibility that you're wrong, yes, you're remaining willfully ignorant.[/quote] Apology fully and truly accepted, the peace of Christ be with you! And yes I have notice the rise in harshness on phatmass. I pray it goes soon, and a joy takes it's place... [quote name='Alycin' post='1608729' date='Jul 25 2008, 08:51 PM']I'm not saying what you are suggesting is impossible, I am saying that the evidence I have provided builds a much more complete puzzle than going off of your theories which you have little-to-no evidence for, and therefore it is intellectually dishonest to continue to tote your opinions of the matter as if they are more likely to be the truth, especially when defamation of character is involved.[/quote] I also believe what you are suggesting is not impossible, I could be wrong. But I also say that the evidence I have provided leads one to think there is a link between this group and the official Obama Campaign. Edited July 26, 2008 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 [quote name='kujo' post='1608756' date='Jul 25 2008, 09:03 PM']I never said you were one of those people, KoC. Though I find you to be stubborn, you are usually pretty respectful. We cool .[/quote] Oh yes I can be 'hard headed' at times. Peace my brother in Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1608777' date='Jul 25 2008, 09:16 PM']If you think I'm suggesting that Obama or his people may have leaked the contents of the prayer note, you would be right.[/quote] I would have to agree...it's possible.... And did you see him in Germany? I expected him to raise his fist in the air and say "Ich Bin Berliner.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1608789' date='Jul 25 2008, 09:27 PM']I would have to agree...it's possible.... And did you see him in Germany? I expected him to raise his fist in the air and say "Ich Bin Berliner.."[/quote] I didn't see it. I really can't stomach any of this. Apparently the Germs are crazy about him. [url="http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3507071,00.html"]http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3507071,00.html[/url] But then again, they aren't known for having the best judgment in leaders (ahem). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 [quote name='Alycin' post='1608755' date='Jul 25 2008, 09:02 PM']I'm done here by the way... permanent vacation starts now.[/quote] Well, I hope that I have not upset you to much. If you do by some chance get a reply from the group I would like to hear what they have to say, even if bias. Now heres the thing, probably a little dorky. But whatever this is what I'm going do just cause. I'm breaking out my rosary and pray it for all of phatmass but you as well, and kujo too. Cause it what I believe God would like, so... it is good to do the will of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycin Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1608782' date='Jul 25 2008, 10:19 PM']They are actually the Founders of the group, 'Jews for Obama' is a daughter of KAHAI.[/quote] NO they are not. Please do not state things as facts when they are not. If ANYTHING, it's the other way around, because JFO has been around longer. The "about me" on their site states, "Now we are strategic partners with a new not-for-profit called “KAHAL America”..." The use of the word "NOW" suggests that they have NOT always been affiliated with them. KAHAL says they helped "establish" the website by helping them with the newsletter. Please Please PLEASE only state things as FACTS if you know them to actually BE facts. *grumbles* what kind of a website doesn't let individual users delete their own accounts? lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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