Madame Vengier Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 I find this incredible to believe. Think of all the famous, world-renowned people who have put a prayer in the wall and they never had their privacy invaded this way. Not President Bush, not the Dalai Lama, not John Kerry, not the Pope, not even Madonna. Just Barack Obama. Anybody else here see something wrong with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycin Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1608121' date='Jul 25 2008, 06:57 AM']I do not believe you have killed the 'ammunition.' You may have indeed proved that there is indeed a connection between the two as I had thought. The 'grassroots' group 'Jews For Obama' is strongly affiliated with the official Obama campaign, it was "formed around the BarackObama.com web space" according to [url="http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/group/JewsforObama"]BarackObama.com[/url] From that link the Group and BarackObama.com which is Obama's official campaign site, offers jews to give a donation to Obama's campaign through a special setup for the Group by the Obama campaign. The money earned by the group counts towards Obama's over all donation earnings, and I would also gather this is how the group is funded. Nothing in life is free, not even bumper stickers, or posters. This connection or affiliation would also explain how they knew about a 'surprise' visit according to multiple news sources. It would also explain the statement by the Israeli police that "These posters were his campaign and not the doing of the police." Yes, that is 'totally obvious' from the pictures you have provided us, but not so much from the yahoo sideshow. Nice to see you, welcome back, if it is but shortly.[/quote] I hate you burst your bubble, but perhaps you missed the part where it says that it is just like, literally, THOUSANDS of other groups that are based of the site. Yeah, they are "strongly affiliated" in that they are huge supporters, but there is no official affiliation. In case you weren't aware, ANYONE, including you, me, or my great uncle George can sign up for a blog at my.barackobama.com and have that "special setup" that you erroneously suggest was made especially for the group by the campaign. It's just like any other fundraising site; I have the exact same function on my Avon Walk for breast cancer page. They knew about the "surprise visit" apparently because it wasn't all THAT much of a surprise, as these things usually aren't... they get leaked, if not before the event, then usually the day of. I linked you to blog but I guess you didn't take the time to read it or you wouldn't keep posting things full of error. Yes, the Israeli officer wanted to make it clear that the police did not put the posters up... why WOULD police be responsible for putting them up? Who would think that? He more than likely just misspoke by saying "campaign" instead of "supporters", also "grassroots campaign" and "official campaign" could be used in this situation correctly... [url="http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/AlycinAnn/Obama%20Junk%20for%20Phatmass/"]Here are some screen shots[/url]. I tried to post them directly but I guess we can't post .png files. Be sure to check out my step-by-step demonstration of how anyone at all can access that "special setup for the Group" that you were talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycin Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1608491' date='Jul 25 2008, 05:04 PM']I find this incredible to believe. Think of all the famous, world-renowned people who have put a prayer in the wall and they never had their privacy invaded this way. Not President Bush, not the Dalai Lama, not John Kerry, not the Pope, not even Madonna. Just Barack Obama. Anybody else here see something wrong with this?[/quote] Yes, the problem is that the world is obsessed with Obama. If you're suggesting anything else, my own personal suggestion to you would be to stop creating false rumors about your neighbors simply because you want something to be true. Someone's prayer life is between them and God and it is none of our business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1608491' date='Jul 25 2008, 04:04 PM']I find this incredible to believe. Think of all the famous, world-renowned people who have put a prayer in the wall and they never had their privacy invaded this way. Not President Bush, not the Dalai Lama, not John Kerry, not the Pope, not even Madonna. Just Barack Obama. Anybody else here see something wrong with this?[/quote] [quote]JERUSALEM (AP) - A written prayer that Barack Obama left this week in the cracks of the Western Wall, Judaism's holiest site, asks God to guide him and guard his family, an Israeli newspaper reported Friday. "Lord—Protect my family and me," reads the note published in the Maariv daily. "Forgive me my sins, and help me guard against pride and despair. Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will." The paper's decision to make the note public drew fire. The rabbi in charge of the Western Wall, Shmuel Rabinovitz, said publishing the note intruded in Obama's relationship with God. "The notes placed between the stones of the Western Wall are between a person and his maker. It is forbidden to read them or make any use of them," he told Army Radio. The publication "damages the Western Wall and damages the personal, deep part of every one of us that we keep to ourselves," he said. Another Israeli paper, Yediot Ahronot, published an article Friday saying it had also obtained the note but decided not to publish it to respect Obama's privacy. Many visitors to the 2,000-year-old Western Wall leave notes bearing requests and prayers. Obama did so during a pre-dawn visit there Thursday, following a day spent meeting Israeli and Palestinian leaders. Maariv published a photograph of the note, which it said had been removed from the wall by a student at a Jewish seminary immediately after Obama left.[/quote] A Jewish seminarian of all people violated one of the most holiest sites in Jerusalem! But the prayer itself is beautiful. May God grant Obama exactly what he asks for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy me Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 The bottom line on this is that the campaign especially this campaign controls every image possible. That is the job of a campaign. If they did not want these signs, they would have removed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycin Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 (edited) Is it too much to ask that people educate themselves before stating things af if they were facts? [quote name='Mercy me' post='1608541' date='Jul 25 2008, 06:11 PM']The bottom line on this is that the campaign especially this campaign controls every image possible. That is the job of a campaign. If they did not want these signs, they would have removed them.[/quote] No, the campaign does not control every image possible, nor is it the job of the campaign. If you believe, that, you are sorely misinformed. That's an understatement, but I can't think of a better word at the moment. If you checked the links of the blogs I provided, you would have read that Obama was originally supposed to appear at the wall at 10pm. The grassroots supporters were passing out flyers and posters the day before the event was to take place. The convoy had not even arrived at the hotel they were to be staying at yet. The people wanting to see him gathered at the wall well before 10pm to wait and were there until he made his delayed appearance at 5:00am or so. There was a huge time gap between the time the signs were being held by supporters, and the time Obama actually got to the site. As I am sure you, (like any informed individual,) realize, Israel has freedom of press. In fact, it is the only country in the middle east that compares to the U.S. in terms of press freedom. So to suggest that Obama or his campaign control these photographs is to suggest that his campaign controls the freedom of press in Israel, which, as you can see, is a completely ridiculous statement. As for them not wanting signs... why would they remove supporter's signs? These signs were held in place by Israeli residents. I can think of no reason why Obama would demand they be removed. It would be quite presumptuous of a non-Jewish, non-Israeli person to assume they know better than Jewish, Israeli residents what is or is not appropriate. Edited July 25, 2008 by Alycin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Alycin' post='1608495' date='Jul 25 2008, 04:06 PM']I hate you burst your bubble, but perhaps you missed the part where it says that it is just like, literally, THOUSANDS of other groups that are based of the site. Yeah, they are "strongly affiliated" in that they are huge supporters, but there is no official affiliation. In case you weren't aware, ANYONE, including you, me, or my great uncle George can sign up for a blog at my.barackobama.com and have that "special setup" that you erroneously suggest was made especially for the group by the campaign. It's just like any other fundraising site; I have the exact same function on my Avon Walk for breast cancer page.[/quote] The bubble has not bursted, whilst any group of people can make a setup something similar to the deal 'Jews for Obama' has with Obama's campaign. The vast majority take in little to no money what so ever, this group however does to the sum of 4,000+, with a goal of 15,000 which most groups have not set as there goal, most I seen where a goal 1,000 bucks. Also unlike most groups this group does not consist of nobodys but a long list of life long well connected Democratic and Liberal activists. Here's a list... [quote]Board of Directors Gidon D. Remba, President, New York, NY Jordan Pollack, Treasurer and Chief Technology Officer, Professor of Computer Science, Brandeis University, Waltham, MA Ilana Bryant, Chief Strategic Officer, Strawberry Frog, New York, NY Lori Lippitz, Director, Maxwell Street Klezmer Band, Chicago, IL Joel Ackelsberg, M.D., MPH, Epidemiologist, Infectious Diseases, Emergency Preparedness, Montclair, NJ Marc Caplan, the Zelda and Myer Tandetnik Professor in Yiddish Language, Literature, and Culture, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD Allon Fisher, Sociologist, Roosevelt University, Chicago, IL Noam Alon, Airline Pilot, Pilots’ Union Mediator, Chicago, IL Board of Advisors Rabbi Andy Bachman, Senior Rabbi, Congregation Beth Elohim, Brooklyn, NY Dr. Daniel Loeb, Publisher, Philadelphia Jewish Voice Rabbi Arnold Jacob Wolf, Emeritus, KAM Isaiah Israel Congregation, Chicago, IL Irv Ackelsberg, public interest lawyer, Langer, Grogan & Diver, PC; former Managing Attorney, Community Legal Services, Inc. of Philadelphia, nationally recognized advocate for consumer justice and national expert on predatory lending Laurie Zoloth, Professor of Medical Humanities & Bioethics and Religion, Director of Center for Bioethics, Science and Society, Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine, Chicago, IL Professor Gerald Bubis, Founding Director of the School of Jewish Communal Service, Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion, and Adjunct Professor of Social Work at the University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Rabbi Michael Cohen, Director of Special Projects, Arava Institute for Environmental Studies, Vermont & Israel Stuart Schoffman, Writer, Jerusalem, Israel Rabbi Herbert Bronstein, Emeritus, North Shore Congregation Israel, Glencoe, IL. Rabbi Brant Rosen, Jewish Reconstructionist Congregation, Evanston, IL Jeff Weintraub, Visiting Associate Professor, Political Science & Sociology, University of Pennsylvania Andrei Markovits, Karl W. Deutsch Collegiate Professor of Comparative Politics and German Studies, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI Jeffrey M. Wice, Special Counsel, New York State Senate; Coordinator, Orthodox Project, National Jewish Democratic Council (NJDC); Election law attorney, NY; Law Professor, Hofstra Law School. Rabbi Josh Feigelson, Evanston, IL Haim Watzman, Writer, Jerusalem, Israel, SouthJerusalem.com Blog Jordana Gerson, Hebrew Union College-Jewish Institute of Religion, Fifth Year Rabbinical Student, New York, NY. Rabbi Melissa Weintraub, New York, NY Rabbi Gary S. Gerson, Oak Park Temple, Oak Park, IL Sam Fleischacker, Ph.D., Professor of Philosophy, University of Illinois at Chicago and Brady Distinguished Visiting Professor of Ethics and Civic Life, Northwestern University, Chicago, IL Louis Levitt, D.P.A., Professor (Emeritus), Wurzweiler School of Social Work, Yeshiva University [url="http://kahalamerica.com/?page_id=3"]SOURCE[/url][/quote] [quote name='Alycin' post='1608495' date='Jul 25 2008, 04:06 PM']They knew about the "surprise visit" apparently because it wasn't all THAT much of a surprise, as these things usually aren't... they get leaked, if not before the event, then usually the day of. I linked you to blog but I guess you didn't take the time to read it or you wouldn't keep posting things full of error.[/quote] Full of error? Now I may have missed it, but all the only mention that I could see about a date and time of the visit was posted [b]after[/b] Obama's visit to the Western Wall, not before, but I may have missed it. Here's what I did see about the date and time... "Barack was supposed to visit the Kotel (The Western Wall) at 10 that night..." "As Barack postponed his visit until the early morning, we were the only news there and pictures of us made it to YAHOO NEWS, for a while this morning one of those pictures was headlining the Haaretz English News story." The poster does not reveal to the reader how he knew about the coming visit, just that it was to be 10pm and the time had been postponed to early morning. Again his bragging that they were the only 'news' there reveals that it was a secret that the real Press was unaware of, but somehow this group was aware? [quote name='Alycin' post='1608495' date='Jul 25 2008, 04:06 PM']Yes, the Israeli officer wanted to make it clear that the police did not put the posters up... why WOULD police be responsible for putting them up? Who would think that? He more than likely just misspoke by saying "campaign" instead of "supporters", also "grassroots campaign" and "official campaign" could be used in this situation correctly...[/quote] Yet the police, who are generally trustworthy and clearly spoken, and who was actually there in communication with the group said "These posters were [u]his campaign[/u] and not the doing of the police," He did not say "supporters" he said "his campaign" meaning Obama's Campaign. And an eyewitness stated that "[u]No one knew[/u] Obama was coming in advance." It makes since if one accepts that this group is a least affiliated with the official Obama Campaign. Because if the visit was a surprise as the evidence seems to show, for this group to have knowledge of the visit would have taken at least an contact within the official campaign of Obama. Edited July 26, 2008 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 [quote name='Galloglasses' post='1607562' date='Jul 24 2008, 05:27 PM']The Mundane is the public face of the magnificent. Our Petty politics will affect millions for years to come, Jesus is above us, of course He is, but He is involved in us and our petty affairs, he accepts our pettiness, he helps us with our pettiness, for our pettiness can mean the life and death of people. Our petty politics will affect millions of unborn babies. And Christ will ignore this? I know that Christ is not a politician, nor is he a member of a political party or ideaology, (quite clever of you to through Fine Geal in there BG), He is a King, which in itself, means He is both above and involved in our affairs.[/quote] Galloglasses, thanks; I really had to rack my brain on world political parties to pull that out of my hat. To both you and DS I offer proof and disproof of your ideas of a mundane war in place of the magnificent. Ephesians 6:12, [i]For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens.[/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycin Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1608597' date='Jul 25 2008, 08:14 PM']The bubble has not bursted, whilst any group of people can make a setup something similar to the deal 'Jews for Obama' has with Obama's campaign. The vast majority take in little to no money what so ever, this group however does to the sum of 4,000+, with a goal of 15,000 which most groups have not set as there goal, most I seen where a goal 1,000 bucks. Also unlike most groups this group does not consist of nobodys but a long list of life long well connected Democratic and Liberal activists. Here's a list... Full of error? Now I may have missed it, but all the only mention that I could see about a date and time of the visit was posted [b]after[/b] Obama's visit to the Western Wall, not before, but I may have missed it. Here's what I did see about the date and time... "Barack was supposed to visit the Kotel (The Western Wall) at 10 that night..." "As Barack postponed his visit until the early morning, we were the only news there and pictures of us made it to YAHOO NEWS, for a while this morning one of those pictures was headlining the Haaretz English News story." The poster does not reveal to the reader how he knew about the coming visit, just that it was to be 10pm and the time had been postponed to early morning. Again his bragging that they were the only 'news' there reveals that it was a secret that the real Press was unaware of, but somehow this group was aware? Yet the police, who are generally trustworthy and clearly spoken, and who was actually there in communication with the group said "These posters were [u]his campaign[/u] and not the doing of the police," He did not say "supporters" he said "his campaign" meaning Obama's Campaign. And an eyewitness stated that "[u]No one knew[/u] Obama was coming in advance." It makes since if one accepts that this group is a least affiliated with the official Obama Campaign. Because if the visit was a surprise as the evidence seems to show, for this group to have knowledge of the visit would have taken at least an contact within the official campaign of Obama.[/quote] 1. Liberals and Democrats support Obama??? NO WAY!!!! You're kidding?!!!??? (I'm not addressing the money issue as I think it's irrelevant.) 2. They were the only news there, as in, the only subject of news, and since Obama had not arrived, the press photographed them instead. Obviously they are not a news crew, if that's what you're trying to suggest. This seems like a "duh" thing to me. If you'd like I can e-mail Tony for clarification of his statement, but I'd bet you 300 bucks I'm right. 3. I can e-mail him to ask him how he knew about his supposed super-top-secret-invisible-magic-ninja trip if you'd like. 4. Sometimes grassroots organizations are referred to as part of the overall campaign, but there is a huge difference between "grassroots campaign" members and "official campaign" members. I already clarified that. It's not that complicated. Individuals who have no official affiliation with Obama, but encourage people to vote for him, are "campaigning" for him, but are not official campaign members. I don't know how to break it down any simpler than that. But if you want to remain willfully ignorant, there isn't gonna be anything in the world I can say to change your mind. You've made that obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 [quote name='BG45' post='1608610' date='Jul 25 2008, 07:31 PM']Galloglasses, thanks; I really had to rack my brain on world political parties to pull that out of my hat. To both you and DS I offer proof and disproof of your ideas of a mundane war in place of the magnificent. Ephesians 6:12, [i]For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens.[/i][/quote] [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1596582' date='Jul 9 2008, 09:11 PM']Our fight isn't really with Obama and persons....it's with the principalities of darkness......they are clearly the "behind the scenes" in this campaign against LIFE...[/quote] WE THINK ALIKE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Sure DS. I play Devil's Advocate though. If someone would just bash McCain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 [quote name='BG45' post='1608636' date='Jul 25 2008, 08:00 PM']Sure DS. I play Devil's Advocate though. If someone would just bash McCain...[/quote] [img]http://www.caglecartoons.com/images/preview/{b502fa37-24b1-442d-b621-07981605e99f}.gif[/img] I think McCain is way way too old for a stint in the White House! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Alycin' post='1608627' date='Jul 25 2008, 07:55 PM']1. Liberals and Democrats support Obama??? NO WAY!!!! You're kidding?!!!??? (I'm not addressing the money issue as I think it's irrelevant.)[/quote] The point is ma'am the group is not some little group of regular folk, or just some teenager supporters with signs. [quote name='Alycin' post='1608627' date='Jul 25 2008, 07:55 PM']2. They were the only news there, as in, the only subject of news, and since Obama had not arrived, the press photographed them instead. Obviously they are not a news crew, if that's what you're trying to suggest. This seems like a "duh" thing to me. If you'd like I can e-mail Tony for clarification of his statement, but I'd bet you 300 bucks I'm right. 3. I can e-mail him to ask him how he knew about his supposed super-top-secret-invisible-magic-ninja trip if you'd like.[/quote] Email him if you would like ma'am but do understand he would have a bias view. It was my understand that they had taken the photos, I would like to double check that by reading the blog but it is currently down as of this moment. [quote name='Alycin' post='1608627' date='Jul 25 2008, 07:55 PM']4. Sometimes grassroots organizations are referred to as part of the overall campaign, but there is a huge difference between "grassroots campaign" members and "official campaign" members. I already clarified that. It's not that complicated. Individuals who have no official affiliation with Obama, but encourage people to vote for him, are "campaigning" for him, but are not official campaign members. I don't know how to break it down any simpler than that.[/quote] Yes thank you, I do understand the concept of "grassroots campaign" and "official campaign". What I suggest that this group is connected to or affiliated with the official campaign, and not a completely independent group. But again the fact the police called it "His Campaign" leads one to believe that the official campaign had something to do with these banners. [quote name='Alycin' post='1608627' date='Jul 25 2008, 07:55 PM']But if you want to remain willfully ignorant, there isn't gonna be anything in the world I can say to change your mind. You've made that obvious.[/quote] I do not understand why you must nearly always employ the tactic of belittling your rivals personally. I try very hard not to employ this tactic, with avoiding the use of "you" "your" "I" and the like, only using them where they are necessary. The above statement is not necessary. If you offer proof that is not questionable, I will concede to that truth. Edited July 26, 2008 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1608671' date='Jul 25 2008, 10:30 PM']I do not understand why you must nearly always employ the tactic of belittling your rivals personally. I try very hard not to employ this tactic, with avoiding the use of "you" "your" "I" and the like, only using them where they are necessary. The above statement is not necessary. If you offer proof that is not questionable, I will concede to that truth.[/quote] I hate to say, I'm really starting to agree with this. Disagreeing with Alycin =/= willfully ignorant. Come on, Aly, that's just arrogant. Be better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Great cartoon DS. Ah South Park was so right and I can't even post the words to describe any election here without PM getting a red rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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