Snaggle In My Vocation

[TotusTuusMaria]

I apologise too for thinking you were a girl. I believe I might have been the only one to say you were a girl on the forum. Sorry. I was confused by the consecrated virginity thread. I think it is wonderful your trying to remain pure for our Lord and protect your baptismal innocence so that you can offer the Mass, hopefully, with an unstained soul. Some of the things you said remind me of St. Anthony Mary Claret. Although he is not well known for it, he was big on purity and staying away from even the possible near occassion to sin.

I absolutely agree with what Margaret Clare said about - if you must go to counseling - getting a good, Catholic conselor who understands these things. I kind of cringed when you mentioned possibly having to go to one because of the secular way the conselor would view things. They might not understand this at all - they probably wouldn't. I really think a good spiritual director is best. Perhaps, maybe you could ask your parents if they would feel better if your priest conseled you.

About psychology though, I was reading Adolphe Tanquerey's [i]The Spiritual Life[/i] and I have been astounded by how much he appeals to psychology and basically says a good priest has a knowledge of physchology. Psychology, he points out, is very good to have when one is a priest (and recommended) because it comes in great service in leading souls and in understanding, as a Spiritual Director, the ascetical and mystical life. Physchology is just the the study of the human person's mental state and process. There is a good kind psychology. Secular psychology is bad and has lost a sense of sin, but there is good psychology.

This site is very, very good: [url="http://www.chastitysf.com/"]http://www.chastitysf.com/[/url]
[url="http://www.ipsciences.edu/"]http://www.ipsciences.edu/[/url]

[stlmom]

I can only say a few things from my experiences for what it is worth. I went through similar experiences as a young girl right at the height of puberty. My parish priests were old time pre-Vatican II men, and they limited me to confession once a week, I was pestering them so much with my concerns. It may not be clear to you now, but because you are developing from a boy to a young man, your normal hormonal changes are running full steam. It can cause a lot of temptation of thought in otherwise nice young guys. God knows we can only handle so much, and then He supplies the rest, including His infinite mercy when we need it.
As the mother/survivor of 3 former teenagers, I can only say that your parents/pastor want the best for you, and that if you are suffering as a result of these concerns for your purity, so are they. Allow them to help you a bit here.

[the lords sheep]

My dear brother in Christ,
First, know of my prayers for you, your situation, and your desire for purity.
Second, I want to point out that regarding the state of your spiritual, physical, emotional, or psychological wellbeing, no one is "against" you or "on your Pastor's side." It may seem that way (and as one who was an angry teenager, I completely understand), but you must realize that they are not against you, they just do not see the situation as you see the situation. Your pastor and your parents may not agree with you, but I truly believe that they want what is best for you. The ability to recognize that their advice is well-intentioned, even when you don't like it or agree with it, is a mark of maturity.

That said, I want to reiterate what someone else said about reading and studying the Theology of the Body. You seem very intelligent and very articulate for someone of your young age, and I believe that you would be able to understand some of the very important and complex theological and philosophical arguments contained in it. I also suggest that you begin with a "TOB for beginners" book, just so that you can begin to break it down (Christopher West was mentioned, there are many other authors on the subject).
I also want to tackle a few things that you have said from a theological standpoint. There are a few things that worry me theologically that you have said, that I would like to comment on here.
Some of your comments made in this post (and in others) have dangerously walked the line of Manichaeism, a heresy which is essentially: "Spirit = good, body = bad." One important point stressed by the late John Paul the Great was this resurfacing of Manichaeism in our Church because of the overly sexualized media with which we are continually bombarded. The body, however, is not bad. If it were bad, if the body were inherently evil, Jesus would not have assumed a body at all, because God cannot unite himself with that which is inherently evil (nor could he create something that was inherently evil).
This point also leads me to see a confusion on your part between temptation and sin. While I greatly admire your zeal for purity of body and soul and thus freedom from sin, you incorrectly equate sin with temptation. You said: [quote]I want to make sure that I don't get any BAD ideas in my head, which will then lead to temptation, and I want to guard my holiness with every ounce of strength that I have.[/quote]

Even Jesus experienced temptation, it's recorded in the Bible; Jesus even experienced sexual temptation. (How do I know this??? Gregory of Nyssa, one of the early Church fathers, said that "What God has not assumed, God has not saved." This means that if Jesus did not experience sexual temptation and sexuality, they have not been redeemed by his death on the cross.) Temptation, however, is not sin. Sin is [i][b]freely and consciously acting
[/b][/i] on temptation. While sin can be committed in thought, having a temptation is not necessarily a sin of thought. For example, lets say I begin to think of sexual intercourse, perhaps as a temptation, perhaps not. Well, this thought is not necessarily a sin. If this thought pops into my head from nowhere, and I turn to the Lord and say "My God, you have created us so beautifully!," this thought is not a sin. If however, I deliberately think of sexual intercourse as a way to arouse myself, that is sin. A good confessor will help you establish the difference between sin and temptation, and because only sins can be forgiven (as they are chosen); this is the reason I'm assuming that your Pastor would not absolve you, because by the grace of God, you had not acted on your temptations, you had merely been tempted.

You also said: [quote]I will not be a Consecrated Virgin because I am a guy, but the truth is, MAYBE if the Lord God is calling me to the Holy Priesthood, one day I will be in the position to actually be CONSECRATE the HOST. I WOULD BE IN THE POSITION TO HOLD THE BLESSED SACRAMENT! Wouldn't you want an unstained, uninfected soul to do this?[/quote] I'm not sure where to begin with this. I see a few problems. The first is the aforementioned difficulty distinguishing temptation and sin. The second is that you have placed sexual sin on a more severe level than other sins. This is not the case. It may be a greater sin for a someone to lie or to be disobedient than for a prostitute to sleep with another man, but either way, it is not up to us to label one as greater or lesser. The severity of sin depends soul to soul, situation to situation, and it depends on how much that mortal sin (assuming it was one) caused the person to freely turn from God. My third problem is that there are no unstained, uninfected souls, only those of our Lord and our Lady. We all were born with the stain of mortal sin, and we all have the tendency to sin because of our fallen nature. I would prefer not to have a priest in the state of mortal sin consecrate the host, but probably not for the reasons you think. They priest, because of his consecration, will be able to consecrate to bread and the wine into the Flesh and Blood of Jesus Christ, whether he is in a state of mortal sin or not. The host that I consume will be no less than Christ's Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity if the priest is in a state of mortal sin, and no more than his Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity if the priest is free from mortal sin. For the sake of his soul, however, I would not want him to be in a state of mortal sin, nor consecrating the Eucharist in that state.
Another problem is that you forget the power of reconciliation. When the priest says "I absolve you of your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" all sins confessed have been forgiven. Completely forgiven. So no matter what the priest had done before or after he was ordained, as long as he has confessed them, I hold him in no lower esteem. In fact, those who have found healing and forgiveness and are living holy lives after a life filled with sin give me hope for my soul which is so prone to sin. So to answer your question "Would I rather have the host consecrated by a priest who is a virgin?" My answer is twofold: for the sake of his soul, I hope he has never committed any sin, but if he had at one point been sexually promiscuous but has sought forgiveness? it makes me no difference: he is still an ordained minister of the Church and I am still receiving the Precious body and blood of our Lord.

I will continue below as I've exceeded the posting length.
I remain your Sister in Christ, through his most Sacred and Merciful heart,
Lauren

[Maggyie]

Beatus,

You sound much more calm and I hope you are going to take advantage of the great relationship you seem to have with your parents to really sort things out. I hope you understand that every creature's soul, except Our Blessed Lady's, has been stained with sin at some point. If you are hoping to hold the Host with hands that have never been "infected" with sin, you are hoping in vain. The good news is that God is full of mercy! Someone who commits the most grevious sins (including those of a sexual nature) who repents, and goes to Confession, is just as pure and holy in the sight of God as someone who with His grace has managed to maintain their purity without blemish. These are two forms of equally sanctifying grace. The grace to persevere, and the grace to repent when you don't persevere.

I think what concerns your parents and pastor and others is that you demonstrate a very high level of interest not only in your own purity but in other people's virginity as well. For instance, "even if some of you are not virgins, I appreciate your thoughts." On the thread about Rosalind Moss's order you noted that she might be accepting older vocations, and you stated that you hoped she would only accept women who have lived in perfect chastity. The reality is that virginity is not a precondition for religious life. The Sisters of Life simply stipulate that you have "no [i]living[/i] children," (emphasis mine) and the order of the Visitation was of course co-founded by St. Jane, a widow. The reformed prostitute is in many ways the perfect emblem of the Christian life, a wretch saved and lifed to glory by Jesus Christ. St. Mary Magdalene was not a virgin, St. Augustine was not a virgin, St. Peter was not a virgin, MANY men in the priesthood are not virgins, especially if theirs is a second vocation.

Sorry for the general confusion about whether you were a gal or a guy. You said that because you mentioned self abuse that should have been a clue that you were a guy, because "girls don't do that." I hate to break it to you but unfortunately, yes girls DO do that. It is a very common problem for women, in fact I think we recently had a thread about that. I think because you are still so young you are a little naive and stuck on the externals (Latin and cassocks etc). If only you knew how many straight-up heretical priests I have met who speak and write beautiful Latin, some of whom are equally fond of the cassock! I have studied Latin too, and I love the Mass in Latin, but as you mature you will come to understand that outward signs do not neccesarily indicate a positive interior spiritual disposition.

I hope I do not come off as harsh on you or anything. I really appreciate that you are struggling for purity, a rare quality in a boy these days. I am a virgin too, thank God, or "a proud member of the V Club" as my college roommates would say. Please pray for me and I will pray for you

[Lilllabettt]

[b]Cast all your anxieties upon Him, because He cares for you.[/b]

Jesus doesn't want you to be afraid of the Devil. God is infinite. The devil is a mere creature.

Looks like you're making sacrifices and avoiding every ocassion of sin you can think of ... great! Do everything you can. Be totally hardcore. Make no compromises. But don't have anxiety about it.

Sometimes its pride that makes a guy think: "If I'm vigilant enough, I can prevent this." . Or "That's so horrible. If I ever fell like that, I'd be infected, stained forever. I'd never be whole again. Not even God could fix me."

And that's how the devil gets in, ironic jerk that he is.

Don't be that guy, my friend.

You vs. Satan: losing battle.
Jesus vs. Satan: well, we know how that turned out.

Sometimes people who have been "infected" become great Saints. Greater and more holy than if they hadn't fallen. St. Mary Magdalen was "infected," big time. She stood next to the Immaculate Conception at the foot of the Cross.

[the lords sheep]

(continued from above)
My brother,
I also want to briefly comment on two quotes from you, not from a theological standpoint, but as a Sister in Christ.
The first,
[quote]As for my comment that the Pastor is a Psychologist. Well, I don't think that is bad necessarily, but I have come to realize (mostly from reading Catholic internet sites) that aside from Father Benedict, being a pyschologist can definitely soften one's commitment to the FAITH and can give people a "way out" for bad behavior. It focuses too much on emotional needs and not enough on spiritual. Just the facts.[/quote]
I'm not sure what facts you are referring to. Two of the holiest religious that I know, one a priest, the other a Sister, both have Doctorates in Psychology (priest = PhD, Sister = MD). Fr. Benedict is another great example. I know from them that there is no faith vs mental health as people, (some of them on Catholic websites) perceive. There are those that try to blend them where they should not be combined, this is true, but being mentally healthy and mature are necessary prerequisites to a deep spiritual life. Be careful about writing off things off as you have the mental health profession, and also use caution about presenting opinions as facts (as you seem to have done above).

[quote]obviously, I will immediately begin cutting off personal communication with members of the opposite sex,[/quote]
I do not, under any circumstances recommend ceasing to speak with or relate to women. To do so would impair you both as a minister and as a human being. Men need women, they need to see what it means for a holy woman to live out her feminine vocation in order to know how live out his vocation as man. JPII stressed this in both the TOB and his letter [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html"]Mulieris Dignitatem[/url] when he spoke of the complementarity of the sexes.
Beyond this, as a priest or religious minister, you will be working constantly with women. Even if you are in the cloister, there is the possibility of hearing confession from women. You need to know how to interact with them and how to communicate with them so that you may serve them. If you are ever a parish priest, most of your parish council and boards will be women. Unless you are a formed human being-one who knows both temptation and compassion, the depths that sin can drive one into but also the heights of God's mercy- and also a mentally and spiritually mature man, able to work with all of God's children, both men and women, you will not be able to serve God's people.


On a side note, as a seminarian or member of a religious order, you will regularly meet with both a spiritual director and a psychologist as part of your formation. It is not a sign of weakness to meet with a counselor or psychologist in addition to meeting with your S;, it is admitting that you aren't perfect and that you are willing to do what it takes to improve yourself as a human being so that you will be a good priest or brother.

You will be in my prayers.
In the hearts of Jesus and Mary, your sister in Christ,
Lauren

[Maria]

I second (third?) the idea of studying the theology of the body. It will give you tools to live as a human being, sexuality included, in a wholesome way, which includes dealing with your temptations in a wholesome way.
As I read your posts I had a mental image of when, sometime during one of Christopher West's video presentations, he speaks of our sexuality twisted by sin (he's holding his arms crossed and twisted vertically against his chest), and says that, rather than repressing them, trying to keep the lid on the boiling pot, which is an endeavor bound to fail, we need to ask God to take our sexuality and straighten it out so that it truly reflects image of God stamped into our bodies at creation. As he's speaking, he untwists his arms and straightens them out, until they're in the position of Christ on the cross, because to live our sexuality as it was meant to be lived is to live the cross. It is to live sacrificially, giving a free, faithful, total and fruitful gift of oneself.

Because... what I see you doing is trying to live chastely and avoid anything impure. But I also see that you're trying to accomplish this by running away from temptation or pushing it away, while at the same time constantly thinking about the dangers of it and worrying about it. This isn't a very good way to go through life. The world recognizes this and says that, therefore, we should give in. There is, however, another option; that we recognize who God created us to be and how our sexuality is meant to fit into that, and ask God to redeem our broken, twisted sexuality so that it can be the life-giving thing of beauty He created it to be.

And yes, this applies to celibates just as much as it applies to married couples.

Edited July 20, 2008 by Maria

[RosaMystica]

Beatus,

I think it is so beautiful that a young man like yourself is gaurding his purity with all that he has. God bless you for that and I'm praying that you can be an example to many other young men in a world that emphasizes impurity.

I think that you've received a special grace and like the men in the parable, don't bury your graces into the ground, you must give the fruits of your graces to others. This is why I don't think it's wise to run away from women. You could be a guy that can teach young women who don't feel that their purity is worth much that their purity is in fact more valuable than anything this world has to offer. You have to be the bright light that shines for the whole world to see.

We read in Scripture that a few of Christ's closest friends were women, St. Mary Magdalen for example, and in imitation of Christ we all must try to help those who are spiritually ill. Don't you think that is why Christ spoke to the woman at the well? All his apostles thought that was pretty scandelous but what a difference it made in her life and in the lives of those whom she told her story of her encounter with Jesus.

I would like to mention that just because you are running away from temptation doesn't mean you'll be completely safe from it. Temptation will find you whether or not you've run away from it the first time or if you continually run away from it.
As soldiers of Christ we must face our temtations head on and triumph over them or else we won't get stronger. Because God is merciful and He loves us, He will give us all the graces necessary to fight the battle of temptations over impurity. Don't you think He knows how sinful and impure our world has become?

I think Maria wrote beautifully of how man and woman compliment each other and this goes for religious and non religious. This is another reason why I don't think it's wise to run away from the opposite sex. I know that the evil one is constantly putting us under trials and temptations but at the same time we have to learn to laugh in his face because just as St. Therese said, he's afraid even of a gaze of a child.

This may be a little on the extreme side but as I was reading your post you reminded me a little of Origen. I think he was deemed a heretic but he has some writings that the Church uses. Anyway, I think he was so overcome with the fear of sinning against purity that he castrated himself. I pray that you aren't has fearful of sexuality as he was. You have to understand that our sexuality is what makes us human. It doesn't mean that we have to follow our disordered desires but we have to let those desires humble us and remind us that we do need God's help and grace to overcome these temptations in order to become saints!!

I'm praying that you persevere through this trial.

[-I---Love]

Beatus,

I'll make my post short and to the point. I went through to a lesser extent of the idiocacy of what you are experiencing. Anyways, in short you are mostly correct and the Pastor and your father are mostly mistaken. #1 keep the faith and pray #2 all things will pass, even this ..one day you'll be on your own and won't have to deal w/ most of such croutons #3 practice humility and try to pick your battles ...pray for those who give you grief

remind your parents of real problems they could have with their teen, but instead they lucked out and have a well-behaved upright son.