Is It Wrong For Gay/lesbian Couples To Adopt?

[HisChildForever]

[quote]The point I am driving at is why do us christians and this is not just about adoption, but everything, think we can make our own rules instead of follow God's? [b]We are doing that everyday by attacking some sins but turning a blind eye to other ones.[/b] What gives us the right as humans to change God's will to better suit our society?[/quote]

You're throwing around some pretty nasty generalizations here, and you're also being very critical and judgemental. I certainly don't think that I can make up my own rules, nor do I wish to.

I'm starting to feel like a broken record because I've repeated myself a couple of times now, and you are either ignoring it, or you don't have a response to it. I am talking about what you said, which I bolded in the above quotation. I already tried to explain this, and here I go, again: [i]In order to make a true impact on society, we need to take it one step at a time. By convincing society that homosexual couples adopting is wrong, they will be more accepting to the fact that non-married couples shouldn't adopt children, either. In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to do this. But the truth is, we have an extremely secular society and such societies need to be approached in careful ways. [/i]

If you don't even acknowledge what I just said, I'm dropping out of this debate because it seems to be turning into a waste of my time. I feel like you don't listen.

[dominicansoul]

Of course it's wrong for homosexuals to adopt! What a ridiculous question! That would be like throwing pearls among swine! I know that sounds harsh, but Jesus Himself commanded that we avoid doing this very thing. Children are the most beloved of Jesus, and we would literally be doing this if we allow active homosexuals to take a child and rear that child.

[mortify]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1619605' date='Aug 6 2008, 05:35 PM']Homosexual acts are a mortal sin. Fornication is a mortal sin? Both equally bad. One is not worse than the other. Its not like one is a venial sin and the other mortal, they are both mortal sins.[/quote]

Even among mortal sins some are worse than others.

[quote]We refers to as all of us christians.[/quote]

It certainly doesn't refer to me.

[quote]I'm not saying make a bad situation worse.[/quote]

This is EXACTLY what you're saying.

[quote]I am saying for us to stop being hyopcritical about things and either protest ALL forms of adoption that does not involve married or a single person or stop protesting adoptions period and stop making us christians look bad.[/quote]

First of all you created a false dichotomy. It's not either we stop all forms of adoption or permit all sorts of adoption. There is actually a third option, prevent the situation from getting worse. As a Christian, permitting homosexuals to adopt is simply not an option, and therefore it shouldn't even be considered. The only options are to contain the situation from getting worse and/or promote it getting better.

To put it simply, jumping out of the frying pan into the fire is NOT a viable solution.

[quote]Your logic is flawed. If a child grows up in a house where a couple is living together and having sex but is not married, he will learn and follow those actions himself. No different than in a homosexula house. Either way its a mortal sin and in God's eyes its all the same. Mortal sin is a mortal sin. Either way your going to the wrong place when you die. So why support either? Why support one and admonish the other? Cause thats what we are doing by turning the blind eye.[/quote]

Are you reading what I'm writing? When did I support either?

Again, making a bad situation worse is not a viable option.

Again, even among mortal sins not all are equal, some are worse than others. Homosexual acts are worse.


God bless

[CatherineM]

I was raised by a non-married couple, and not just not married in the church. They didn't get civilly married until there were 6 kids and 15 grandchildren and many decades together involved. Yes, they were living in mortal sin, although I didn't know it at the time. I didn't know they hadn't been married all those years until years after my father passed away. My dad could have been in mortal sin from being a hitman and my mom could have been a cat burgler at night. There are many things that are mortal sins that can easily be kept silent. It is the public sin that causes the most trouble. It doesn't make it less of a sin to be kept private, but it doesn't cause scandal.

If I had known my parents weren't married, I would have asked questions. I would have pressed my father to get an annulment from his first marriage since he had automatic grounds. If other members of our church had known, they would also have put pressure on them. There situation was easily fixable. Bottom line though, I was raised by a father and stay at home mom, attended Catholic schools, and had a normal life. If my "parents" had been a gay couple, I would have missed out on seeing proper role models. Even with single parents, you know that you're missing a dad or a mom, and you know what kind of a role model is missing. If I had been raised by two women, I wouldn't have understood how important a dad can be to the emotional development of a girl. If I'd had two dads or two moms, I wouldn't have understood how a normal woman should act or feel. I think it is better to have a missing role model, than an improper one.

[Apotheoun]

The Church's Magisterium has said in the past that not all forms of discrimination against people suffering from homosexual inclinations is wrong, and one place in particular where it is justified is in the adoption of children.

It is morally reprehensible to knowingly put children into a situation in which moral virtue is undermined or openly attacked by practices that are contrary to the natural moral law.

[Socrates]

[quote name='mortify' post='1619754' date='Aug 6 2008, 07:26 PM']Even among mortal sins some are worse than others.
It certainly doesn't refer to me.
This is EXACTLY what you're saying.
First of all you created a false dichotomy. It's not either we stop all forms of adoption or permit all sorts of adoption. There is actually a third option, prevent the situation from getting worse. As a Christian, permitting homosexuals to adopt is simply not an option, and therefore it shouldn't even be considered. The only options are to contain the situation from getting worse and/or promote it getting better.

To put it simply, jumping out of the frying pan into the fire is NOT a viable solution.
Are you reading what I'm writing? When did I support either?

Again, making a bad situation worse is not a viable option.

Again, even among mortal sins not all are equal, some are worse than others. Homosexual acts are worse.
God bless[/quote]
Well said - you basically said everything I was going to say.

Of course, common sense is not readily accepted by the politically-correct mindset.

I myself have gotten sick of these false dichotomy "arguments" that seem so prevalent here. If one condemns homosexual adoption or "marriage," then he is attacked for condoning heterosexual sin; if one attacks legalized abortion, he is attacked for not caring about poor mothers, etc.

Edited August 7, 2008 by Socrates

[HisChildForever]

[quote]I think it is better to have a missing role model, than an improper one.[/quote]

[Kitty]

[quote name='mortify' post='1619754' date='Aug 6 2008, 08:26 PM']As a Christian, permitting homosexuals to adopt is simply not an option, and therefore it shouldn't even be considered.[/quote]

For Christians it seems wrong, but what about all the other people in the world who do not share Christian beliefs? I would understand more if Catholics wanted to shut down CATHOLIC orphanages that were letting gay couples adopt. But to go around criticizing gay couple adoption as a WHOLE and trying to push for its prohibition seems odd to me.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1619982' date='Aug 7 2008, 01:30 AM']For Christians it seems wrong, but what about all the other people in the world who do not share Christian beliefs? I would understand more if Catholics wanted to shut down CATHOLIC orphanages that were letting gay couples adopt. But to go around criticizing gay couple adoption as a WHOLE and trying to push for its prohibition seems odd to me.[/quote]

If something like this seems odd to you, then you have not been properly catechized, or have not troubled to properly develop your conscience.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1619610' date='Aug 6 2008, 07:39 PM']The point I am driving at is why do us christians and this is not just about adoption, but everything, think we can make our own rules instead of follow God's? We are doing that everyday by attacking some sins but turning a blind eye to other ones. What gives us the right as humans to change God's will to better suit our society?[/quote]
NOBODY IS SAYING ITS OK FOR UNMARRIED COUPLES TO ADOPT. I am bolding this because you keep missing this sentence or inference in everybody's post. If you are not married , you have no business adopting children.

[mortify]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1619982' date='Aug 7 2008, 01:30 AM']For Christians it seems wrong, but what about all the other people in the world who do not share Christian beliefs?
I would understand more if Catholics wanted to shut down CATHOLIC orphanages that were letting gay couples adopt. But to go around criticizing gay couple adoption as a WHOLE and trying to push for its prohibition seems odd to me.[/quote]

Because it's contrary to natural law.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1619982' date='Aug 7 2008, 01:30 AM']For Christians it seems wrong, but what about all the other people in the world who do not share Christian beliefs? I would understand more if Catholics wanted to shut down CATHOLIC orphanages that were letting gay couples adopt. But to go around criticizing gay couple adoption as a WHOLE and trying to push for its prohibition seems odd to me.[/quote]
Why do you call yourself "Catholic" if you obstinately refuse to belief what Christ's Church teaches?

Morality is not subjective, and does not apply only to Catholics.
Some religions are perfectly okay with human sacrifice, and in fact mandate it, yet this does not mean Catholics should not "impose" our morality of "thou shalt not kill" on them.

Things like homosexual "marriage" and adoption are contrary to the natural law, and are not merely "religious" restrictions.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1619982' date='Aug 7 2008, 01:30 AM']For Christians it seems wrong, but what about all the other people in the world who do not share Christian beliefs? I would understand more if Catholics wanted to shut down CATHOLIC orphanages that were letting gay couples adopt. But to go around criticizing gay couple adoption as a WHOLE and trying to push for its prohibition seems odd to me.[/quote]


i think it theoretically possible to be a catholic, and not believe in infallibility though, and have some arguable basis. but that describes like 0.00001% of catholics who dissent from the chruch, so i doubt that's your basis for defying the church.
wihtout that basis....
i'm not catholic, but if i were one, one that doesn't violate the rules... i'd say that we shouldn't go around trying to ban gay marriage, or sex etc. if adults want to do what they do, it's no obligation and there are no rules necessarily for a catholic to want to stop them... unlike some catholics automatically but mistakently believe. but with that said... adoption is a little different, cause it involves innocent third parties, ie kids. there almost sure is an obligation as a catholic to stop it, cause it's not consenting adults.

[dairygirl4u2c]

ie, there's a difference between banning somthing and promoting it. passing gay marriage is promoting it and so is wrong..... banning it is proactively seeking its demise, when there was no promotion going on, and so is not wrong, arguably.

[Kitty]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1620816' date='Aug 7 2008, 09:06 PM']Why do you call yourself "Catholic" if you obstinately refuse to belief what Christ's Church teaches?[/quote]

I used to be opposed to gay marriage but as I grew older I changed my opinion. It wasn't something that I WANTED to do; it just happened, and I began to see the issue in a different light, from different perspectives.

What is better; to lie about how I really feel about an issue, or tell the truth? I am sorry, but no one, not even the Church, can force me to think otherwise.