Is It Wrong For Gay/lesbian Couples To Adopt?

[havok579257]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1619450' date='Aug 6 2008, 04:06 PM']I would say that protesting abortion is ten times more important than protesting homosexual couples adopting. Why? Because abortion is the [b]killing of an innocent child[/b]. Everything is not as black-and-white as you might want it to be. It's very noble to be as righteous as you are being, but in our society, we're limited in the things that we can do. That's why I said it's important to take things one at a time.[/quote]



We are only limited by the barriers we impose upon ourselfs. What would you say to someone who took your stance back when slavery was not only allowed but incouraged? Would you tell the person who is a slave that, sorry, we can't do anything for you because we are limited by what society? How about segregation? How about gay men and lesbian woman back in the 70's/80's when people were trying to say they don;t deserve to have basic human rights granted by the government? Where is the point when you let society dictate what you will fight and won't fight and what is the point when you say, I don't care what society says, I will not stand for this a minute longer.

We are not talking about abortion here and if its more important than other things. It was merly a reference that we as christians split our priorities many different ways.

Except this issue in the eyes of the church is black and white. They state that we should not allow homosexual couples to adopt because we are putting the child in that home, thus the child will be raised to think that is an acceptable lifestyle.

Well the same exact thing can be said about non-married couples adopting. Although we as christians turn a blind eye to this. We are repulsed by gay/lesbians together so much more than a man and a woman together who are not married so we attack the first one and don't even bother with the second one. Well that my friend is wrong. We are taking God's law and warping it to fit our agenda and what WE deem right.

It is hyopcritical to deny gay/lesbian couples to adopt because of our faith, but then have no problem allowing un-married couples to adopt even though it to goes against our faith. Its like the person who admonishes someone for having sex outside of marriage, but later that evening they themselfs go and have un-married sex. This is the same exact thing. Or the person who protests with every fiber of their being against abortion but is all for the death penalty. We are using our faith as a baisis to deny a group of people the right to adopt, but turn a blind eye to another group that goes against our faith, but still allow them to adopt. This is horrible, horrible, what we are doing as christians. We need to make up our minds, either tell everyone that unless they are a married couple or a single person who has every intention of getting married and then having sex then we are against them adopting children. Either that or let any person/people to adopt as long as they pass whatever tests the government deems need to be passed to qualify for adoption. This IS a black and white issue. Both instances according to the church should not be allowed. We are called to act in these situations, alibet peacefully. We need to stop making excuses for some sins being ok in front of our very eyes and others not. If the sins we deem acceptable were acceptable to God, they would not be sins at all. Simple as that. Is it a sin in God's eyes? If so, by supporting this behavior we as christians are not different than those who are committing the sin themselfs.

[HisChildForever]

[quote]We are not talking about abortion here and if its more important than other things. It was merly a reference that we as christians split our priorities many different ways.[/quote]

You are the one who brought up abortion. And I was explaining why we, as Christians, have certain priorities.

[quote]Well the same exact thing can be said about non-married couples adopting. Although we as christians turn a blind eye to this. We are repulsed by gay/lesbians together so much more than a man and a woman together who are not married so we attack the first one and don't even bother with the second one.[/quote]

I think that the word “repulsed” is a bit far-fetched and inappropriate; that being said, the reason why we appear to be more against homosexual sinful practices and not heterosexual sinful practices is because, as I have stated a few times already, homosexuality is unnatural and thus contrary to God's law. While heterosexual sexual sins are also grave, there is a great possibility of reformation; the couple, for instance, repents and lives celibate until marriage. (I think this was mentioned earlier by someone else.) Homosexuals do not have this option, as you know, and this issue needs to be addressed with more immediate attention and care.

[quote]It is hyopcritical to deny gay/lesbian couples to adopt because of our faith, but then have no problem allowing un-married couples to adopt even though it to goes against our faith.[/quote]

Technically, this is not hypocrisy. Hypocrisy would be, for example, publically opposing homosexual sex and yet privately participating in it yourself.

[quote]Its like the person who admonishes someone for having sex outside of marriage, but later that evening they themselfs go and have un-married sex.[/quote]

Yes, that is hypocrisy.

Now I understand your viewpoint, but I must say that I sense a bit of hostility on your end. I am not advocating either adoption situation; in fact I disagree with both, just like you. I am just trying to explain to you why one seems more acceptable than the other.

Edit: Spelling.

Edited August 6, 2008 by HisChildForever

[mortify]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1618867' date='Aug 6 2008, 12:07 AM']grave moral defect? wouldn't the same be said of sex outside marriage?[/quote]

No, it wouldn't.

Fornication is bad, homosexual acts are worse.
[quote]we support that. how is that not problomatic?[/quote]

I don't know who "we" refers to, it certainly doesn't include me!
[quote]either ban all un-married couples from adopting or allow gays/lesbians to adopt.[/quote]

What you're saying is, "the situation is BAD, so why not make it WORSE?"

Why would you want to make the situation worse by permitting homosexual couples to adopt children? It just doesn't make sense. We should be working to improve the system, not make more problems!

[add]

Unequivocally a sin in thought and deed, it is wrong

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1619503' date='Aug 6 2008, 05:40 PM']We are only limited by the barriers we impose upon ourselfs. What would you say to someone who took your stance back when slavery was not only allowed but incouraged? Would you tell the person who is a slave that, sorry, we can't do anything for you because we are limited by what society? How about segregation? How about gay men and lesbian woman back in the 70's/80's when people were trying to say they don;t deserve to have basic human rights granted by the government? Where is the point when you let society dictate what you will fight and won't fight and what is the point when you say, I don't care what society says, I will not stand for this a minute longer.

We are not talking about abortion here and if its more important than other things. It was merly a reference that we as christians split our priorities many different ways.

Except this issue in the eyes of the church is black and white. They state that we should not allow homosexual couples to adopt because we are putting the child in that home, thus the child will be raised to think that is an acceptable lifestyle.

Well the same exact thing can be said about non-married couples adopting. Although we as christians turn a blind eye to this. We are repulsed by gay/lesbians together so much more than a man and a woman together who are not married so we attack the first one and don't even bother with the second one. Well that my friend is wrong. We are taking God's law and warping it to fit our agenda and what WE deem right.

It is hyopcritical to deny gay/lesbian couples to adopt because of our faith, but then have no problem allowing un-married couples to adopt even though it to goes against our faith. Its like the person who admonishes someone for having sex outside of marriage, but later that evening they themselfs go and have un-married sex. This is the same exact thing. Or the person who protests with every fiber of their being against abortion but is all for the death penalty. We are using our faith as a baisis to deny a group of people the right to adopt, but turn a blind eye to another group that goes against our faith, but still allow them to adopt. This is horrible, horrible, what we are doing as christians. We need to make up our minds, either tell everyone that unless they are a married couple or a single person who has every intention of getting married and then having sex then we are against them adopting children. Either that or let any person/people to adopt as long as they pass whatever tests the government deems need to be passed to qualify for adoption. This IS a black and white issue. Both instances according to the church should not be allowed. We are called to act in these situations, alibet peacefully. We need to stop making excuses for some sins being ok in front of our very eyes and others not. If the sins we deem acceptable were acceptable to God, they would not be sins at all. Simple as that. Is it a sin in God's eyes? If so, by supporting this behavior we as christians are not different than those who are committing the sin themselfs.[/quote]
Nobody here is advocating unmarried couples adopting children.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1619369' date='Aug 6 2008, 02:30 PM']You are missing the point. The problem is not that they are gay, but that they are a"gay couple" trying to assert that is the same as marriage. It is not and never will be. So no, they have no right to raise children.[/quote]
Under the logic that the person was using, the conclusions that i stated were correct. I agree that gay couples will never be able to achieve being truelly married, but tell me where it states that gay couples shouldnt adopt children. This is obviously a debatable topic. The bible doesnt come out and say it. So its up to the church to decide it. I think for us to come to a solid conclusion we must weigh out all the pros and cons. Have you even thought that maybe it would be best for a child to have the opportunity to get out of a foster care environment period? And that the child be loved by someone who is willing to raise them no matter any circumstance? Did you consider that the gay couple is capable of unconditionally loving a child? The only way to find this stuff out is to allow it to happen, and see what the results are. You cant just take rights away from any group of people because of fear of what may happen. That is called discrimination. Personally I think that we should allow it to happen, and see what the results are. If these children tend to be gay because of being raised by gay parents...then no gays shouldnt be allowed to adopt. If the kids are all jacked up and unable to function properly in society...then no gays shouldnt be allowed to adopt.

[havok579257]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1619561' date='Aug 6 2008, 05:31 PM']Nobody here is advocating unmarried couples adopting children.[/quote]


Yes, we as christians are because we don't actively protest it. We actively protest gay/lesbian adoption, gay/lesbian marriage, abortion, evolution and so on and so on. We are advocating it by not doing anything to oppose it. It would be the same as if we just sat by and nobody said anything about abortion. We would be advocating it due to our silence.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='infinitelord1' post='1619597' date='Aug 6 2008, 06:22 PM']Under the logic that the person was using, the conclusions that i stated were correct. I agree that gay couples will never be able to achieve being truelly married, but tell me where it states that gay couples shouldnt adopt children. This is obviously a debatable topic. The bible doesnt come out and say it. So its up to the church to decide it. I think for us to come to a solid conclusion we must weigh out all the pros and cons. Have you even thought that maybe it would be best for a child to have the opportunity to get out of a foster care environment period? And that the child be loved by someone who is willing to raise them no matter any circumstance? Did you consider that the gay couple is capable of unconditionally loving a child? The only way to find this stuff out is to allow it to happen, and see what the results are. You cant just take rights away from any group of people because of fear of what may happen. That is called discrimination. Personally I think that we should allow it to happen, and see what the results are. If these children tend to be gay because of being raised by gay parents...then no gays shouldnt be allowed to adopt. If the kids are all jacked up and unable to function properly in society...then no gays shouldnt be allowed to adopt.[/quote]
Did you consider that the child may have developed a same sex orientation, and that maybe it is best for him to learn how to deal with it if he had gay parents?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='infinitelord1' post='1619597' date='Aug 6 2008, 07:22 PM']Under the logic that the person was using, the conclusions that i stated were correct. I agree that gay couples will never be able to achieve being truelly married, but tell me where it states that gay couples shouldnt adopt children. This is obviously a debatable topic. The bible doesnt come out and say it. So its up to the church to decide it. I think for us to come to a solid conclusion we must weigh out all the pros and cons. Have you even thought that maybe it would be best for a child to have the opportunity to get out of a foster care environment period? And that the child be loved by someone who is willing to raise them no matter any circumstance? Did you consider that the gay couple is capable of unconditionally loving a child? The only way to find this stuff out is to allow it to happen, and see what the results are. You cant just take rights away from any group of people because of fear of what may happen. That is called discrimination. Personally I think that we should allow it to happen, and see what the results are. If these children tend to be gay because of being raised by gay parents...then no gays shouldnt be allowed to adopt. If the kids are all jacked up and unable to function properly in society...then no gays shouldnt be allowed to adopt.[/quote]
Sorry but I don't buy the "lets experiment" on kids approach to child-rearing. Why are you assuming fostercare is terrible? Many foster parents end up adopting the kids they take in and are absolutely wonderful people. A gay couple are roommates, not married folks, and are not the model of a healthy family. Why put kids in that situation?

[havok579257]

[quote name='mortify' post='1619519' date='Aug 6 2008, 04:55 PM']No, it wouldn't.

Fornication is bad, homosexual acts are worse.
I don't know who "we" refers to, it certainly doesn't include me!
What you're saying is, "the situation is BAD, so why not make it WORSE?"

Why would you want to make the situation worse by permitting homosexual couples to adopt children? It just doesn't make sense. We should be working to improve the system, not make more problems![/quote]


Homosexual acts are a mortal sin. Fornication is a mortal sin? Both equally bad. One is not worse than the other. Its not like one is a venial sin and the other mortal, they are both mortal sins.

We refers to as all of us christians.

I'm not saying make a bad situation worse. I am saying for us to stop being hyopcritical about things and either protest ALL forms of adoption that does not involve married or a single person or stop protesting adoptions period and stop making us christians look bad.

Your logic is flawed. If a child grows up in a house where a couple is living together and having sex but is not married, he will learn and follow those actions himself. No different than in a homosexula house. Either way its a mortal sin and in God's eyes its all the same. Mortal sin is a mortal sin. Either way your going to the wrong place when you die. So why support either? Why support one and admonish the other? Cause thats what we are doing by turning the blind eye.

[havok579257]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1619603' date='Aug 6 2008, 06:30 PM']Sorry but I don't buy the "lets experiment" on kids approach to child-rearing. Why are you assuming fostercare is terrible?  Many foster parents end up adopting the kids they take in and are absolutely wonderful people. A gay couple are roommates, not married folks, and are not the model of a healthy family. Why put kids in that situation?[/quote]Niether is an un-married couple who adopt children.  Although we have no problem allowing that to happen.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1619603' date='Aug 6 2008, 06:30 PM']Sorry but I don't buy the "lets experiment" on kids approach to child-rearing. Why are you assuming fostercare is terrible? Many foster parents end up adopting the kids they take in and are absolutely wonderful people. A gay couple are roommates, not married folks, and are not the model of a healthy family. Why put kids in that situation?[/quote]

Also, to build on this - homosexual couples with adopted children would encourage the original institution of the family to change, it would completely skew what a family is. With more homosexual families, homosexuality will become the norm, and then we'll see homosexual "marriage" and perhaps charges against Catholic priests who refuse to perform them.

[quote]Yes, we as christians are because we don't actively protest it. We actively protest gay/lesbian adoption, gay/lesbian marriage, abortion, evolution and so on and so on. We are advocating it by not doing anything to oppose it. It would be the same as if we just sat by and nobody said anything about abortion. We would be advocating it due to our silence.[/quote]

You're pretty passionate about this. Have you been involved in any public protests against non-married couples who adopt? It seems that this is the point you're driving at.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1619603' date='Aug 6 2008, 06:30 PM']Sorry but I don't buy the "lets experiment" on kids approach to child-rearing. Why are you assuming fostercare is terrible? Many foster parents end up adopting the kids they take in and are absolutely wonderful people. A gay couple are roommates, not married folks, and are not the model of a healthy family. Why put kids in that situation?[/quote]
Its been a while since ive seen the movie "Annie" but the point im trying to reach is...not all foster families are good...just like not all families are good. Are you assuming that all gay couples are not capable of assuming a role in a family w/ kids, and raising these children to be healthy adults? Because if you do see it that way then I can see why you arent willing to experiment and that you would rather deprive a group of people certain rights.

[havok579257]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1619608' date='Aug 6 2008, 06:37 PM']Also, to build on this - homosexual couples with adopted children would encourage the original institution of the family to change, it would completely skew what a family is. With more homosexual families, homosexuality will become the norm, and then we'll see homosexual "marriage" and perhaps charges against Catholic priests who refuse to perform them.
You're pretty passionate about this. Have you been involved in any public protests against non-married couples who adopt? It seems that this is the point you're driving at.[/quote]


The point I am driving at is why do us christians and this is not just about adoption, but everything, think we can make our own rules instead of follow God's? We are doing that everyday by attacking some sins but turning a blind eye to other ones. What gives us the right as humans to change God's will to better suit our society?

[HisChildForever]

[quote]Your logic is flawed. If a child grows up in a house where a couple is living together and having sex but is not married, he will learn and follow those actions himself.[/quote]

No, your logic is flawed. Just because a child is raised by non-married parents doesn't mean that he/she will go out and have sex out of wedlock. (And I might as well throw this out there: just because a gay couple adopts a child, that doesn't necessarily mean that the child will "turn" gay.)

If this is your reasoning, how do you account for very Catholic families who sometimes have a child (or two) that turn against the Church and embrace, say, agnosticism? Or a non-religious family that may have a very Catholic, or a very Jewish, or a very Muslim, child?

Just because the parents behave one way or believe one thing, doesn't automatically mean that the child will turn out the same.

Edited August 6, 2008 by HisChildForever