havok579257 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) I want to get everyone's opinion on this because most christian's you talk to say that gay/lesbian couples should not be allowed to adopt. Why is this? How is it not better for the kid to have people who love them as opposed to being stuck in a under-funded, under-manned institution such as foster care. The fact is, many children go through their entire lives without a mom or dad to guide them because they are waiting to be adopted but it never happens. So why not let gay/lesbian's adopt kids. Then the kids will have someone who will love them. Just thinking about the children, how can it be better to leave them in foster care or wards of the state when most are horrible places to be instead of letting people who will love them adopt them? Thoughts? Edited July 16, 2008 by havok579257 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 First off, I'm left wondering where all these ophanages you speak of are. If you mean "should children be left in a shuffle about foster care system" then we can talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1601293' date='Jul 16 2008, 04:50 PM']First off, I'm left wondering where all these ophanages you speak of are. If you mean "should children be left in a shuffle about foster care system" then we can talk.[/quote] adjusted my previous post to use better wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 First, I think a child should be raised with both a mom and a dad in the house. We focus a lot on how boys suffer without a male role model, but so do girls. Not having a dad around can mess up a daughter's relationships with men. Second, I represented many gay clients, male and female, 20+ years ago, and I truthfully never met a happy couple. They were so broken is so many ways. I'm not saying that all hetero couples are perfect paragons of mental health, but they don't automatically start out with strikes against them. Lastly, having done more divorces than I care to admit, having sometimes 3 or 4 adults involved in child custody is going to turn out some really screwed up kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1601304' date='Jul 16 2008, 05:07 PM']First, I think a child should be raised with both a mom and a dad in the house. We focus a lot on how boys suffer without a male role model, but so do girls. Not having a dad around can mess up a daughter's relationships with men. Second, I represented many gay clients, male and female, 20+ years ago, and I truthfully never met a happy couple. They were so broken is so many ways. I'm not saying that all hetero couples are perfect paragons of mental health, but they don't automatically start out with strikes against them. Lastly, having done more divorces than I care to admit, having sometimes 3 or 4 adults involved in child custody is going to turn out some really screwed up kids.[/quote] Well I doubt we can say all gay/lesbian couples are messed up. I have met some who are very happy together. So then should no single parents be allowed to adopt? How is keeping them in foster care where there is no mom or dad better than having at least 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I was thinking more about the legalities of adoption. I had female couples come and try to get me to file papers so that the other mother could adopt the natural child of her partner. That's not allowed in most jurisdictions, and I certainly wouldn't have been party to that. There is a easy fix to the foster care system. Pay foster parents enough money. Allow people to work off their student loans by being foster parents, or pay enough so that one of the parents can stay home. There's a difference between foster parents and adopting parents. In Florida, gay individuals could do one but not the other. At least when I lived there. I'm not sure that we should be using single people as foster parents either. We had a case here where a woman with two children of her own, and a full time job was allowed two foster kids. She needed them because the housing costs went up so dramatically, that everyone is playing catchup. The financial stress coupled with the stress of the kids, anyway, there's now a dead child, the mom is in jail, and her kids are now in the system as well. I haven't had a gay client in over 15 years, so perhaps all this new acceptance is rubbing off, and there are lots of happy couples capable of raising kids together. I just never met any in my practice then, or since. I guess I'm just not running around in the right circles anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) Considering gay/lesbian couples (by their very existence) are [b]wrong[/b], then yes, it is wrong for them to adopt. Edited July 16, 2008 by Noel's angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='Noel's angel' post='1601321' date='Jul 16 2008, 05:28 PM']Considering gay/lesbian couples (by their very existence) are [b]wrong[/b], then yes, it is wrong for them to adopt.[/quote] But we let couples who are not married adopt? Is that not wrong? We allow anyone to have a kid and raise them even if they are abusive, alocholics, drug abusers, sex addicts and so on and so on. Should we only allow christian married couples to adopt then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='havok579257' post='1601328' date='Jul 16 2008, 04:36 PM']But we let couples who are not married adopt? Is that not wrong? We allow anyone to have a kid and raise them even if they are abusive, alocholics, drug abusers, sex addicts and so on and so on. Should we only allow christian married couples to adopt then?[/quote] First, when do children get knowingly placed into homes where the parents are abusive, alcoholics, ect.? Secondly, no one is disallowing gay couples to have children, its just that they can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1601317' date='Jul 16 2008, 05:23 PM']I was thinking more about the legalities of adoption. I had female couples come and try to get me to file papers so that the other mother could adopt the natural child of her partner. That's not allowed in most jurisdictions, and I certainly wouldn't have been party to that. There is a easy fix to the foster care system. Pay foster parents enough money. Allow people to work off their student loans by being foster parents, or pay enough so that one of the parents can stay home. There's a difference between foster parents and adopting parents. In Florida, gay individuals could do one but not the other. At least when I lived there. I'm not sure that we should be using single people as foster parents either. We had a case here where a woman with two children of her own, and a full time job was allowed two foster kids. She needed them because the housing costs went up so dramatically, that everyone is playing catchup. The financial stress coupled with the stress of the kids, anyway, there's now a dead child, the mom is in jail, and her kids are now in the system as well. I haven't had a gay client in over 15 years, so perhaps all this new acceptance is rubbing off, and there are lots of happy couples capable of raising kids together. I just never met any in my practice then, or since. I guess I'm just not running around in the right circles anymore.[/quote] Trying to fix the foster care system by those means are the same as trying to fix education, social security, welfare and so on and so on. Realistically it ain't going to be fixed by the government, it hasn't been yet and it never will be fixed by the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='rkwright' post='1601331' date='Jul 16 2008, 05:38 PM']First, when do children get knowingly placed into homes where the parents are abusive, alcoholics, ect.? Secondly, no one is disallowing gay couples to have children, its just that they can't.[/quote] Please re-read my post. I said we allow people to have kids when they have those problems. Anyone can have a kid through sex, there is no law on that. So why all the jump through for adoption. My question is should we allow them to adopt or should we just say, sorry kids, your lifes going to smell of elderberries in foster care without any parents, although just deal with it. This gay couple wants to adopt your and would love you but we say no and we think its better of you stay in foster care until you age out of it and then your on your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='havok579257' post='1601335' date='Jul 16 2008, 04:42 PM']Please re-read my post. I said we allow people to have kids when they have those problems. Anyone can have a kid through sex, there is no law on that. So why all the jump through for adoption. My question is should we allow them to adopt or should we just say, sorry kids, your lifes going to smell of elderberries in foster care without any parents, although just deal with it. This gay couple wants to adopt your and would love you but we say no and we think its better of you stay in foster care until you age out of it and then your on your own.[/quote] I know what your post said. My second point is the response. No one is disallowing a gay couple of having kids through sex. Good luck with that though. I'll make it clearer. You say: People with problems can have sex and have kids. Therefore, Gay people should be allowed to adopt. Your terms don't line up. Your conclusion is not related to the premise. People with problems can have kids, we agree. People with problems cannot adopt kids. So therefore, Gay people are free to have sex to have kids (though its impossible). Gay people cannot adopt kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendofJPII Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [b]absolutely, positively, not.[/b] No child should have to live in that kind of enviroment. We need more Christian couples (or singles) who are willing to adopt foster children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendofJPII Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='havok579257' post='1601335' date='Jul 16 2008, 04:42 PM']Please re-read my post. I said we allow people to have kids when they have those problems. Anyone can have a kid through sex, there is no law on that. So why all the jump through for adoption. My question is should we allow them to adopt or should we just say, sorry kids, your lifes going to smell of elderberries in foster care without any parents, although just deal with it. This gay couple wants to adopt your and would love you but we say no and we think its better of you stay in foster care until you age out of it and then your on your own.[/quote] Yeah, let the gay couple adopt you and your life will be even more confusing that it already is. Most gay couples want healthy babies, however, like most couples looking to adopt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Nullified my vote - its a loaded question. Gays and lesbians should not be couples in the first place. And that's all I have to say about that. Back to you Bob... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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