Debt From School

[Veritas]

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It IS hard, because we want to please our parents so much because we love them so much! It can be very challenging to essentially say (although not out loud or this directly) "No, I have to do something else". But, it is part of growing-up and it is nothing sinful or immoral that you are considering. At most, it is a matter of prudence.

Love your parents, listen politely to their advice, take it into consideration, but most importantly, bring it to prayer. Sometimes parents will know what is best (a lot of the time) and we can thank God that he gave them to us, but sometimes, we need to make our own decisions that go in another direction!

If the Lord calls you to pursue a path, he has to take priority: "Whoever loves their father or mother more than me, cannot be my disciple".

It is going to work out okay! It will get easier. Just do God's will!

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1600778' date='Jul 16 2008, 01:31 AM']I've know a couple of people who run up credit cards for their tuition. At least you can get rid of that in bankruptcy easier than student loans. There was talk once about letting people work off their student loans with government service. I know that the military can work some off if you serve as enlisted rather than officer. I went to school with someone who did that. He served as a chaplain's assistant. I thought that would be like being a sacrastin or altar server, but he was actually a trained body guard, protecting the chaplain. That must look cool on a resume for director of religious education.[/quote]

It would look cool. Military service is not unheard of for FUS students who are out of school by a few years and a good portion of their wages are being garnished by loan companies. I can think of one girl who was in the financial aid office one day in tears and practically had her uniform on the next day with the US Army. She was nearly $70,000 in debt because of interest and could not find work anywhere (that would allow her to live and pay off debt). The only reason I haven't had to file for bankruptcy is because I'm taking my MA classes to keep my loans in deferment. Then the only thing that will keep me above water will be taking PhD classes at which time I hope the Catholic Church will be willing to pay a fair wage.

[Justin86]

About the military thing: There is a Congressional law that says that if you join the military all debt you acquired before you joined has to be lowered to a 6% interest rate. You do have to call your bank and let them know that you joined the military, and provide a copy your current orders (which are very easy to get). I'm not sure if it applies to officers or not though. Look into if it applies to officers before you join. Trust me, if you can go officer, go. They live better lives.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1600648' date='Jul 15 2008, 06:08 PM']I say if they can't legally force you to pay it off, just thumb your nose at them.

Good enough for corporations, good enough for citizens.[/quote]

umm... my 4 year old instinct kicked in... isn't that called 'stealing'?

[StColette]

I left FUS with around 22,000 in debt. That's only because I lived off campus for one of the two years I was there, had great financial aid help, and worked 40 hrs + a week in order to help from my loans getting too high. Micah has about the same amount in Student loans. We both pay about $230.00 a month in student loan payments. That's already a good chunk out of our paycheck because both of us are working for the Church. I must say that combined we are a lot better off then some when it comes to others individually. And individually we are way better off than most, especially those who graduate from FUS. I gave up a free ride to any LA University or College to go to FUS, I did take 54 credits for free on the scholarship at a LA University, but I knew where I belonged studying. I haven't felt bad about attending FUS and placing myself into debt. As an investment person told me, student loans are good debt.

Micah and I are both going to be starting our MAs soon (Micah this Fall or Coming Spring) and me in the Spring. With a new baby on the way it would be easier financially for us to defer our loans for a while. Even with one of us deferring would make a big difference.

[Barbarus]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1600575' date='Jul 15 2008, 05:39 PM']Hey folks. Without going into a lot of details on what's going for me, I would like to ask a kind of general opinion on finances/paying for school/debt.

I'm the first in my family history to go to college, so my parents had no idea what to expect money-wise when I headed off last year. For a few different reasons, we didn't understand exactly how expensive college really is, especially going to a private university. Now my mom is beginning to freak out about finances, wants me to transfer to a state school or even community college (which is a bit difficult, considering I'm studying Philosophy & Theology) and has no idea how we're going to pay things off.

Now, I'm trying to look at this from a level point of view... Education costs money. A higher education is not cheap and most people come out of school with debt, right?

I can work it out to where I can graduate in three years, which saves $40,000. From my general calculations, that would leave me... about $50,000-60,000 in debt by the time I have my degree.

Is that typical? Or is that a number I should be scared of, and consider ditching my education for something else?[/quote]
Is this debt in your name or your parents' name? (You say your mother has no idea how "we're" going to pay things off.)

I had a small amount of debt coming out of college, about $8,000. I went to a small private school but got great financial aid. My parents were adamantly opposed to my taking on any debt at all, but I fought them on it and stayed in school. It was the right thing to do, but then again I was getting a degree in a field where jobs were relatively easy to get.

I think far too often people get degrees in areas where jobs are not plentiful or the pay is low. Especially in times where the economy is shaky, we have to be practical about school and the money we are putting into education. The degrees you say you're pursuing are typically not lucrative fields, particularly within the Catholic church and with you having only a bachelor's at this point. If you are certain you are called to be here, I would seriously consider going on and getting a master's degree in one of these areas so you can at the least open up academic work as an option.

Otherwise, you are looking at monthly payments of around $500, which is a lot to handle when you are also paying for things like an apartment, a car, food, utilities, and so on.

If I were you, I would head to my career counseling office and get a realistic assessment of the job market with the degrees you'll have, then sit down with your parents and practically analyze your options. Of course, continue to pray for discernment along the way, but arm yourself with as much information as you can.

[Ash Wednesday]

Bachelor's and Master's combined, I owe about $25,000. Perhaps a bit less now as I've been making payments regularly since finishing up, and I consolidated and did not go through a private lender.

Some debts aren't as bad as others. Education loans and real estate are generally considered more meaningful debts that you have to take sometimes but do have some kind of payback or reward with them. I also think public lenders are much better to deal with and it's best to avoid private loans as much as possible. With private loaners like SallieMae, you have to get a co-signer and they are not nearly as flexible about paying back as the public ones are.

I have a friend who owes probably close to $150,000 from an undergraduate art degree at a private school. I think she's struggling just to get by and is just paying interest. She doesn't want to file for bankruptcy because she has co-signers with her loan and that would foul up their credit.

So if you want a college degree, debt is often unavoidable. But get loans wisely.

[Maggyie]

I am so not in favor of leaving school with large debt. I myself left with about $8,000 but my parents are in the hole about $20,000 for me.... I am hoping to get my end of the debt paid off by the end of the year. It is going to be painful.

The reason I tend to be against big debt is the huge barriers it can erect in pursuing your vocation. If you are called to married life, educational debt can absolutely DESTROY your marriage. I have actually heard of this happening quite a bit specifically with FUS grads, lots of divorces/anullments from people who meet there while students and marry with $150.000+ in debt between the two. It's "good debt" in that it's an investment in their educations - but when you think about it, that's a good-sized mortgage right there. And that's not a business degree, at FUS that's most likley a degree in theology, which is one of the least lucrative/employable degrees on offer. So the "investment" in some ways is actually pretty lousy. The stress on the marriage can be incredible, especially when it comes to the discussion about having children and how to afford that.

If you are called to the religious life, of course you have to pay off all that debt before you can enter. There are organizations that can help but in the end you mostly have to do it yourself. It can be years and years before you are able to finally enter on the vocation that God is calling you to, and meanwhile there is going to be a hard and difficult struggle.

Obviously if you have discerned God's will on this then you have to go with what God wants. But God also calls us to be prudent. I would double check again on whether state or community colleges offer the philosophy/theology major, I have one friend who I know studies philosophy at a community college, theology might be a bit tougher at a state school but they typically have some kind of Religion major under the Classics department... which might not be adequate if you really want specifically Catholic theology. One way to save money which I know many people do is take the first two years or school at a community college and then transfer the credits to a more expensive four-year school (which maybe would have those preferred Catholic theo courses?)

[StColette]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1601025' date='Jul 16 2008, 10:48 AM']Obviously if you have discerned God's will on this then you have to go with what God wants. But God also calls us to be prudent. I would double check again on whether state or community colleges offer the philosophy/theology major, I have one friend who I know studies philosophy at a community college, theology might be a bit tougher at a state school but they typically have some kind of Religion major under the Classics department... which might not be adequate if you really want specifically Catholic theology. One way to save money which I know many people do is take the first two years or school at a community college and then transfer the credits to a more expensive four-year school (which maybe would have those preferred Catholic theo courses?)[/quote]

I would advise against studying Religion/Theology or Philosophy even at a community or state university/college, especially if you want something that is orthodox. I took a Philosophy class at a State University and was horrified at what they were teaching, I quit the class within the first couple of weeks of school.

I spent two years at a State University as a Biology/Chemistry major under the PreVet program. Lucky for me all my credits transferred to FUS as electives and other such courses lol under at Theology major. I will say it can be quite difficult finishing up an entire Theology degree requirement within 2 years if you weren't able to take the correct courses at a State or Community college.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Barbarus' post='1601008' date='Jul 16 2008, 11:09 AM']Is this debt in your name or your parents' name? (You say your mother has no idea how "we're" going to pay things off.)

I had a small amount of debt coming out of college, about $8,000. I went to a small private school but got great financial aid. My parents were adamantly opposed to my taking on any debt at all, but I fought them on it and stayed in school. It was the right thing to do, but then again I was getting a degree in a field where jobs were relatively easy to get.

I think far too often people get degrees in areas where jobs are not plentiful or the pay is low. Especially in times where the economy is shaky, we have to be practical about school and the money we are putting into education. The degrees you say you're pursuing are typically not lucrative fields, particularly within the Catholic church and with you having only a bachelor's at this point. If you are certain you are called to be here, I would seriously consider going on and getting a master's degree in one of these areas so you can at the least open up academic work as an option.

Otherwise, you are looking at monthly payments of around $500, which is a lot to handle when you are also paying for things like an apartment, a car, food, utilities, and so on.

If I were you, I would head to my career counseling office and get a realistic assessment of the job market with the degrees you'll have, then sit down with your parents and practically analyze your options. Of course, continue to pray for discernment along the way, but arm yourself with as much information as you can.[/quote]

My mom and my grandmother have cosigned loans with me. My parents are doing their best to pay off what they can, when they can, as they can.

Luckily I came into my college with extra credits from AP classes I took in high school, which took care of a lot of the required classes. I've dropped my Theology major to a minor (our theology program isn't the best, it's not horrible, but it's not worth paying that much money) and have kept my Philosophy major. With all of that, I will be graduating a year early.

Studying what I'm studying, I'm probably going to have to go to get my master's-- which I want to do anyways. But it seems like that's super expensive too. I'd likely be looking at FUS for the masters program. I'd want to do my Masters in Theology, but looking at their website, it might be more plausible to just continue with Philosophy.

I want to teach (or DRE or Youth Minister) and I want to write.

I don't like the thought of having to incur so much debt... but I'm rather confused as to what any other options would be at this point, except for dropping out of school. If I were to transfer even to a state school, it would be like starting all over again because the classes I've taken at my school have mostly been to do with my fields. Plus I wouldn't be able to finish a year early at a state school. And I'd have to figure out a different major.

See... what I don't get, is unless you're a business or pyschology major (or med), there's basically no job outlook. I hear people say all the time that all that matters is that you have a degree (from a liberal arts school), and I hope that's true if I have to get a job outside of the Church at first. But I don't know.

It's just a scary time because I feel like I need to have the rest of my life planned out for me right now. And I don't. I don't know what I'm going to do once I get my degree. I don't know what type of job I'll find. Or if I'll go on to my masters. So, I don't know if it's worth it. Or if I'll be able to make things work.

All I know is the 'now'. And I love studying what I'm studying. There's nothing I'd prefer. But does that still mean that's what God wants me to study? The only thing I feel like I can do is keep doing what I'm doing, trusting in God, and hoping that if He wants something different for me, then He'll speak a little bit louder.

[littleflower+JMJ]

Loans can come in pretty big numbers after a degree. Lucky for me I get federal and state funds to pay my loans off because I'm a teacher in a high-need area both in subject and location. Its going to help me get rid of mine really fast!

My advise is to not be in a hurry to accept a loan, make sure you understand and agree with their terms because so many times it will be very difficult to pay later on if you did not pay attention when you signed it.

[Era Might]

I can't advise your specific situation, but I would suggest that you not be so set in your dreams, that you ignore reality. Maybe going to another school, or even leaving school for a few years, might be the best option. Maybe you should work for a while, and pursue your academic goals in the future. Only you know what is best in your situation, but sometimes hard decisions have to be made. It is nice to follow dreams, but sometimes we have to settle for reality. It sounds like your family is really supportive and is willing to help you as much as they can, but you may need to protect them from themselves. They may be willing to help with debt, because they love you, but you have to prudently decide how much is too much burden to place on them.

Even if you cannot live your dreams right now, that doesn't mean God will not give you opportunities in the future. Don't stake your whole life on a dream. The important thing is serving God, whether in dreams or reality. But I hope you are able to remain in school and study what you want to study.

[Barbarus]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1601338' date='Jul 16 2008, 05:48 PM']My mom and my grandmother have cosigned loans with me. My parents are doing their best to pay off what they can, when they can, as they can.

Luckily I came into my college with extra credits from AP classes I took in high school, which took care of a lot of the required classes. I've dropped my Theology major to a minor (our theology program isn't the best, it's not horrible, but it's not worth paying that much money) and have kept my Philosophy major. With all of that, I will be graduating a year early.

Studying what I'm studying, I'm probably going to have to go to get my master's-- which I want to do anyways. But it seems like that's super expensive too. I'd likely be looking at FUS for the masters program. I'd want to do my Masters in Theology, but looking at their website, it might be more plausible to just continue with Philosophy.

I want to teach (or DRE or Youth Minister) and I want to write.

I don't like the thought of having to incur so much debt... but I'm rather confused as to what any other options would be at this point, except for dropping out of school. If I were to transfer even to a state school, it would be like starting all over again because the classes I've taken at my school have mostly been to do with my fields. Plus I wouldn't be able to finish a year early at a state school. And I'd have to figure out a different major.

See... what I don't get, is unless you're a business or pyschology major (or med), there's basically no job outlook. I hear people say all the time that all that matters is that you have a degree (from a liberal arts school), and I hope that's true if I have to get a job outside of the Church at first. But I don't know.

It's just a scary time because I feel like I need to have the rest of my life planned out for me right now. And I don't. I don't know what I'm going to do once I get my degree. I don't know what type of job I'll find. Or if I'll go on to my masters. So, I don't know if it's worth it. Or if I'll be able to make things work.

All I know is the 'now'. And I love studying what I'm studying. There's nothing I'd prefer. But does that still mean that's what God wants me to study? The only thing I feel like I can do is keep doing what I'm doing, trusting in God, and hoping that if He wants something different for me, then He'll speak a little bit louder.[/quote]
TB:
[url="http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Youth_Minister/Salary"]Here is a payscale link for youth ministry salaries[/url].
As you can see, for about five years you can expect to earn in the neighborhood of $30,000. This of course will vary depending on the church and area you're in. That works out to take-home pay of about 22,500 (taxes are roughly 25%). That's about 1,875 per month. Out of that, you can expect to pay somewhere between $150-400/month in health insurance costs. Then you'll have a car payment (unless you're very lucky and get or already have a car that is paid for). You'll have car insurance. You'll have housing costs. Telephone. Food. Entertainment. Gasoline. Incidental expenses. Plus $500 in student loan costs. It goes pretty quick. And, working as a youth minister, it would be difficult to have a second job.

Now, you can lower the payments so it's less per month, but when you lower the monthly payment you stretch out the length of time you'll be paying, so you pay more overall in interest. And you need to remember that your mom and grandma are on the hook if for some reason you cannot pay. That is a [i]big[/i] gift they are giving you. My parents would not do that for me.

Dropping out of school might not be the answer. In fact, from the perspective of a complete stranger, I would think it probably isn't the answer, because your degree will position you to make higher pay, and if you quit before you're done you will have to start making payments on your loans sooner without having the extra earning power of a degree. But I would not foreclose looking at other school options, and thinking very carefully about the type of job you want to have. Like I said, do the research, work out the practicalities of the money (painful as that is), and then make your decision. Continuing to go forward unarmed with information is not, in my view, ever the right way to go, particularly when information is so easily available.

[JoeyP]

Dave Ramsey, financial expert, does not believe student loans are good debt. I agree now that i am done with school and have huge debt from college. I bought into all those ideas that college debt is good debt and it isn't. No debt is good debt. Unless you are in a field that you are going to make good money such as a doctor or dentist or something and you have to take out loans for med school. But if you are like me and have an degree in education then it is not good. I went to a private school and have a lot of debt. I have found that in most areas that need teachers such as North and South Carolina, Arizona, Nevada(Las Vegas), etc. I would not even be able to live on a teachers salary with my loan debt. It has really put a hamper on my plans and i am probably going to have to look into another field. If i could do it all over again I would have worked full time and went to school part time and paid my tuition myself even if it took 8 years to graduate. Basically, i would have found any way possible to come out of school with no debt. I can tell you it's not worth it having all this debt. I am limited by soo much in what i can do now. I don't have a lot of options. I can't move to the places i want, i may have to work a second job while i teach and in the summers. I'd give anything to have this debt gone.

[cmotherofpirl]

Look into teaching in a rural area with a state debt forgiveness package.

I checked with my son, his current debt is about $50,000 as he is starting his 2nd year of grad school.