Adoration At Steubenville East Conference

[curtins]

pham:

Just got home from the Steubenville East Conference this weekend.

I'd like your opinion on something:

Each night they have adoration and praise and worship during which there is music and like "empowerment" talking (ie "for those of you who have been abused, who have had family problems, who have adictions.....")

during this people start passing out left and right...."resting in the spirit" and crying hysterically and laughing uncontrollably......

I'm not trying to be judgemental or critical of people, but I'm very skeptical about the whole thing. It seems to be built up into a sort of show or exposition where people come to have "an experience"..... and its more about this hysteria than about worshiping Jesus in the monstrance. I don't like that.


Furthermore, I've been to adoration plenty of times at church....when theres not 2000 people, music, talking, etc....and people are not passing out, crying and laughing hysterically. FURTHERMORE....when they had like the whole 2 minutes of silence during the entire adoration- it actually GOT silent and the crying and laughing basically stopped.

Therefore, I make the hypothesis that alot of this is very enviromentaly induced and encouraged by the adults, the chaperones, the organizers, speakers and the fellow youth. I feel like its the combination of these enviromental factors (music, crowd) with the stirring of one's emotions, problems etc that cause this.

I found it distracting. I had to worry about who was next gonna fall or collapse around me....couldn't focus really on prayer. little to no silence.

your thoughts.

[LouisvilleFan]

I think Steubenville conferences will tend to draw young Catholics who are into the Charismatic Renewal already, so they are going with the expectation of having this kind of experience. Some of it might be induced by the environment, but I don't know if that necessarily a bad thing. After all, the environment at any Mass is supposed to "induce" us to silence and prayer. As long as they are praying sincerely and following the Truth, then they are fine. The danger is in raising these Charismatic gifts above Christ and the Church. We see that happen when some leave the Church for a Pentecostal community, just as we see some Catholics raise Traditionalism over and above Christ and His Church, creating schisms like SSPX. Obviously, the University of Steubenville is fully Catholic, so if there's a problem it's best for the University and local bishops to deal with.

Edited July 14, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[Brigid]

it sounds weird... I don't really trust it. I went to a Steubenville conference last year, and there wasn't anything like that, thankfully. I don't have any experience with it, so I can't really say, but what you said about it being environmentally induced makes sense. it's easy to get caught up in the emotions, and if it's expected for people to faint, people are going to faint.

[MissyP89]

People can get high on emotions built up in a situation like that. It's a very real energy that can be abused, even if it's innocent.

It's definitely normal to be emotional--there's only been one week in the last two months where I haven't been driven to tears at Mass. I think the Spirit is doing some healing in me--reacting so strongly I think is a grace I'm being given right now. I know there's going to be a time where that consolation is going to go away. When that happens, my faith will sustain me.

That's why I worry is charismatic situations. I know it's a movement approved by the Church, and that some of the pham are involved and happy; I trust them. I'm not so sure about young Christians though, and how their faith my fare when those experiences are taken away.

[corban711]

when i went to steubenville san diego a few years ago there was some of the same stuff going on. and i will admit that i found some of it to be distracting and i have a hard time believing that all of it was "real". however, at the same time i felt very strongly that figuring out whether it was real or induced was not really my place. and even if God isn't doing all of it, i would have a hard time accepting that He wasn't moving at least some of the people in those ways...i have had times in adoration (even privately) where i have been moved to tears or to uncontrollable smiling and a joy that brought laughter (not hysterical...but a very felt experience of joy).

and for some people, especially people who struggle with addictions, anger, frustration or were abused....that first time that they really have a "felt" experience of God can be soooo powerful. i have known (at least at an intellectual level) that God loves me deeply for most of my life...but there have been a few times when God has let me experience that love quite deeply and in ways that have changed my life. i think those kind of experiences do the same thing for many of those youth at steubenville retreats and for that reason it can be very beautiful. maybe through that experience God won't just be an idea anymore...but a deep reality of love in their lives that they won't want to deny anymore. being involved in youth ministry for a while granted me the opportunity to have seen many people's lives changed through those experiences and even if i wanted to deny them or say "that can't be from God", i saw many lives transformed.

i think that it is very important to teach not to "seek" those experiences or to "fake it until you make it". i think that is dangerous and if/where that occurs, it is an abuse of true prayer. and also, for those who had it, to understand that those experiences are a gift, but shouldn't be considered "holier" or "better" than anyone elses prayer or the normal dryness that will eventually occur.

[Deb]

I think there is a time and place for spiritual experiences and for adoration and that they should not necessarily be in the same place or the same time.

To me, adoration is a time of silence, reflection and speaking directly to the Lord. Healing Masses should be separate. People will cry and laugh and rest in spirit as the Lord moves them. As someone who has rested in the spirit many times and has been healed in incredible ways, it is certainly not something of the imagination or even in ones control. I have been determined NOT TO rest and, the Lord is not listening to me. He is in control.

Pentecost came with fire and filled the Apostles with the Holy Spirit and they were given incredible Charisms to go out and convert the non-believers. That is the same spirit that was there speaking through the prophets, living within Christ while he was on earth and it is the same spirit that is there for every single one of us. The Holy Spirit may have more power and more reception with the young than with those whose hearts are hardened or closed for many reasons. The Holy Spirit can heal all wounds and is the direct path to our Lord Jesus Christ. We have to be completely open to him and want him to do his work in us, in order to gain the fulness he has for each of us.

I rejoice for all experience the healing power of the Holy Spirit.

[Noel's angel]

What's the point in even having Adoration if no one is going to focus on Christ? Things like this really bug me. Adoration is the most amazing thing in the world, to sit in silence before God. Then they get this crazy idea to start playing distracting p+w music and talking about things that are going to make people emotional. People are so busy listening to the noises of the world and having some sort of shallow 'experience' to really have any chance of allowing Jesus to penetrate their hearts in a lasting way.
Just leave it to Jesus, for goodness sakes. He'll do everything that He wants to do. Even though it might not make you cry, there's a whole lot more going on when you're simply adoring Him in silence.

Irk.

[picchick]

Although it can be faked, it is not so all the time. I am wary of the charismatic renewal stuff. I went to a Stubie conference and also had the same stuff go on, people were screaming, crying, laughing, et. al. And yes it was difficult to pay attention. Yet in my heart and mind I was totally focused on Jesus in the Eucharist. What is cool is when the process around with Jesus. Sure it is not necessary but for some of those kids, it is not enough to be told that Jesus in the Eucharist was close to them. It is not as concrete as actually having Jesus that close. For some p+w music is a prayer. That is fine. You don't always have to pray to God in silence. Just as those kids need something concrete to relate to they also need guidance in this prayer. Many of them are not familiar with adoration or prayer for that matter.

Anyways, my experience in the adoration was pretty interesting considering my wariness in the whole thing. I was totally focused on Christ. I heard what was going on but it was all blocked out. Yeah, this is kinda hard for me to explain...I felt totally empty inside and didn't feel anything. When I opened my eyes, I realized that I was falling backwards. Well, because I didn't want to do that I stopped myself and knelt upright. I closed my eyes again and it started happening again. This time I decided that I didn't want to end up on the floor so I fell up against a friend. I really didn't want to end up on the floor I am very grateful that my friend supported me. That was one of the most amazing feelings in the world. I have only experienced it three times in my life. Each time I felt like God had taken me and laid me on a cloud to rest for a bit before returning into the world again.

I still question the "slain in the spirit" thing. I do not understand the whole speaking in tongues or knocking people over with prayers and such...I guess I don't get why the Spirit would decide to pick certain people over others. So yeah, even though it sorta happened to me I a still wary of the whole ordeal

Meg

[Deb]

[quote name='picchick' post='1599851' date='Jul 14 2008, 11:16 AM']Although it can be faked, it is not so all the time. I am wary of the charismatic renewal stuff. I went to a Stubie conference and also had the same stuff go on, people were screaming, crying, laughing, et. al. And yes it was difficult to pay attention. Yet in my heart and mind I was totally focused on Jesus in the Eucharist. What is cool is when the process around with Jesus. Sure it is not necessary but for some of those kids, it is not enough to be told that Jesus in the Eucharist was close to them. It is not as concrete as actually having Jesus that close. For some p+w music is a prayer. That is fine. You don't always have to pray to God in silence. Just as those kids need something concrete to relate to they also need guidance in this prayer. Many of them are not familiar with adoration or prayer for that matter.

Anyways, my experience in the adoration was pretty interesting considering my wariness in the whole thing. I was totally focused on Christ. I heard what was going on but it was all blocked out. Yeah, this is kinda hard for me to explain...I felt totally empty inside and didn't feel anything. When I opened my eyes, I realized that I was falling backwards. Well, because I didn't want to do that I stopped myself and knelt upright. I closed my eyes again and it started happening again. This time I decided that I didn't want to end up on the floor so I fell up against a friend. I really didn't want to end up on the floor I am very grateful that my friend supported me. That was one of the most amazing feelings in the world. I have only experienced it three times in my life. Each time I felt like God had taken me and laid me on a cloud to rest for a bit before returning into the world again.

I still question the "slain in the spirit" thing. I do not understand the whole speaking in tongues or knocking people over with prayers and such...I guess I don't get why the Spirit would decide to pick certain people over others. So yeah, even though it sorta happened to me I a still wary of the whole ordeal

Meg[/quote]

God doesn't pick certain people over others for the Holy Spirit to work in. In some, it just manifests itself by "resting in spirit." The Holy Spirit is working in someone whether they rest or not. Some people however are not receptive to it, are afraid of it or flat out do not believe in any of it and it will not happen to them. Just as God does not force his Love and life on anyone, neither will the Spirit.
I personally thought that people who went down while being blessed were fanatical lunatics. I watched them and was trying to figure out how long til I got my blessing and got out of there. It is no wonder I totally freaked out when I went down and was paralzyed. It was also the moment when all the wounds in my heart of my entire life were healed. I had prayed for peace and that is exactly what the Holy Spirit gave me. No doubts here. He can renew himself in me every day of the week if he wants.

[curtins]

I'm not trying to be judgmental or to discount everything as being put on or faked. I could certainly believe that some, maybe even many had legitimate experiences. However, at the same time I'm just skeptical of the whole thing, especially as it is built up and almost "marketed" or portrayed as the "steubenville experience"....again, because it seems to not be all about Jesus.

Who knows.... I'll bring it up with my SD, see what he has to say about it. Thanks for the input. Keep it coming.

[Deb]

I will say that I do not believe that this should be taking place with the Blessed Sacrament exposed. That is not adoration.

It is different if one is going up one by one to offer the surrender prayer in front of the blessed sacrament as this is a completely different type of blessing. (one that does result in resting in spirit now and then)

If it is turning into a circus, then I think something is wrong. Every event that I have attended where this happens has been a very specific healing Mass. There is a full Mass. Then a healing reflection by the Priest, then laying on of hands with a blessing. There may be soft music or piano but otherwise, it is silent. Everyone there is instructed to pray for those who are being blessed and for the priest doing the blessing. People are very reverent for what is taking place.

[JoeyP]

I heard someone say it best about the Charismatic Movement. He said that there are always fringe groups that take it a little over the line with any movement. But that doesn't mean we should throw the Charismatic movement out of the Church. It happens with Marian groups and we aren't going to remove Marian devotion from the Church because of some people on the fringe taking Marian devotion to far. So, in the same sense we shouldn't throw the Holy Spirit out of the Church just because there are people on the fringe who take the Charismatic movement over the top.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='curtins' post='1599545' date='Jul 13 2008, 09:38 PM']pham:

Just got home from the Steubenville East Conference this weekend.

I'd like your opinion on something:

Each night they have adoration and praise and worship during which there is music and like "empowerment" talking (ie "for those of you who have been abused, who have had family problems, who have adictions.....")

during this people start passing out left and right...."resting in the spirit" and crying hysterically and laughing uncontrollably......

I'm not trying to be judgemental or critical of people, but I'm very skeptical about the whole thing. It seems to be built up into a sort of show or exposition where people come to have "an experience"..... and its more about this hysteria than about worshiping Jesus in the monstrance. I don't like that.
Furthermore, I've been to adoration plenty of times at church....when theres not 2000 people, music, talking, etc....and people are not passing out, crying and laughing hysterically. FURTHERMORE....when they had like the whole 2 minutes of silence during the entire adoration- it actually GOT silent and the crying and laughing basically stopped.

Therefore, I make the hypothesis that alot of this is very enviromentaly induced and encouraged by the adults, the chaperones, the organizers, speakers and the fellow youth. I feel like its the combination of these enviromental factors (music, crowd) with the stirring of one's emotions, problems etc that cause this.

I found it distracting. I had to worry about who was next gonna fall or collapse around me....couldn't focus really on prayer. little to no silence.

your thoughts.[/quote]


sounds like fun

[Noel's angel]

It just annoys me that some people seem to have the opinion (whether they are conscious of it or not) that unless the Holy Spirit is sweeping through people and causing them to fall over or whatever, that he isn't there at all.

[Revelation]

Hey, I went to the same Steubenville East conferance over the weekend, and I do agree that there might have been a bit too much of "resting in the spirit" etc... However, I have personally felt these 'gifts' during adoration, and I have not, both time's were just as powerful to me. I'd like to say that everyone there was there to experiance God, but I do think some might've been done in a mocking manner, which makes me upset.

A big reason I think we don't see these 'gifts' manifest during Adoration back home in our own church's is because I'm sure some of the people there are simply there because they feel they need to be there. They may not get into, or they may be focused on something other than God and the monstrance.