Galloglasses Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 Now don't be Harse Madam, their job was to reclaim afterall. The first Crusade succeeded. Pity Emperor Barbarossa Drowned before he could land his Huge Holy Roman Empire Crusader force in the Holy Lands, Saladin was really afraid of him, (With good reason, The HRE was the Superpower in Europe at that time, if he could get his army to have free passage through other Christians lands he could conquer anyone), he kind of lucked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Madame-The Moors had access to and maintained the knowledge of the Greeks and Egyptians that was pretty well unknown to the average dark age European. The Early Muslims were much more open to outside knowledge than they are today, obviously. I remember reading once that when we retook Toledo from the Moors, that the Archbishop had Jewish scholars translate the medical and science texts they left behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galloglasses Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 That reminds me, Irish Monks in the dark ages preserved alot of Greek and hellenic thought and philosophies in their monastries while the Roman Empire was falling apart. Apparently this knowledge was traded with the Byzantine Empire for resources, (Altough how Irish merchants got that far is beyond me.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1601116' date='Jul 16 2008, 12:09 PM']Yeah, see that's the problem I have with the Crusaders. They didn't get the job done.[/quote] What "job"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1601271' date='Jul 16 2008, 03:28 PM']Madame-The Moors had access to and maintained the knowledge of the Greeks and Egyptians that was pretty well unknown to the average dark age European. The Early Muslims were much more open to outside knowledge than they are today, obviously. I remember reading once that when we retook Toledo from the Moors, that the Archbishop had Jewish scholars translate the medical and science texts they left behind.[/quote] They also left behind some good poetry and philosophy. In college, when we studied the philosophical thought of the three monotheistic religions, there was a Muslim philosopher (whose name I'm blanking on right now) we read that was very good. What I was curious about when I asked you that was regarding what original scientific contributions they left behind. You said they preserved the knowledge of the Greeks and Egyptians--I was interested to know of their original contributions. For example, I really love middle eastern music and I was recently in another forum trying to defend the great music that has come from the Muslim world and I was being told that I was wrong, that there was no original musical art form from the Muslim world, just whatever they absorbed from previous cultures they were inhabiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1601561' date='Jul 16 2008, 10:31 PM']They also left behind some good poetry and philosophy. In college, when we studied the philosophical thought of the three monotheistic religions, there was a Muslim philosopher (whose name I'm blanking on right now) we read that was very good. What I was curious about when I asked you that was regarding what original scientific contributions they left behind. You said they preserved the knowledge of the Greeks and Egyptians--I was interested to know of their original contributions. For example, I really love middle eastern music and I was recently in another forum trying to defend the great music that has come from the Muslim world and I was being told that I was wrong, that there was no original musical art form from the Muslim world, just whatever they absorbed from previous cultures they were inhabiting.[/quote] If you are asking what the improvised then of course there are numerous scientific advances and the development of the numeral system. If you are asking about some utterly unprecendented, totally origional, absolutly previously unknown invention you won't find much. You won't find much in the west either. Even Darwinism has vague outlines in the Ionists. As for your philosopher. If he was related to poetry that was likely Mawlānā Jalāl-ad-Dīn Muhammad Rūmī. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 (edited) 'Hassan' [quote]If you are asking about some utterly unprecendented, totally origional, absolutly previously unknown invention you won't find much.[/quote] That's exactly what I'm looking for. [quote]You won't find much in the west either.[/quote] That's a false statement of profound and stupifying proportions. [quote]If you are asking what the improvised then of course there are numerous scientific advances and the development of the numeral system.[/quote] I believe they "invented" the zero. Numbers were in existence well before there were Moors or Muslims of any sort. Humans have been adding, subtracting and multiplying for a very, very long time. [quote]he was related to poetry that was likely Mawlānā Jalāl-ad-Dīn Muhammad Rūmī.[/quote] No, I wasn't referring to Rumi. But I like him, too. It may have been Al-Farabi that I'm thinking of. It depends on the time period, because we studied Humanities in a cycle. Al-Farabi was from the medieval age. Edited July 17, 2008 by Madame Vengier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1601751' date='Jul 17 2008, 05:17 AM']'Hassan' That's exactly what I'm looking for.[/quote] Then your out of luck. Even Frege's quantifier logic built on the Scholastics, and that was one of the most unprescidented discoveries in history [quote]That's a false statement of profound and stupifying proportions.[/quote] Give me five counterexamples examples [quote]I believe they "invented" the zero.[/quote] no [quote]Numbers were in existence well before there were Moors or Muslims of any sort. Humans have been adding, subtracting and multiplying for a very, very long time.[/quote] Yes however the Arabic numeral system is unique in it's utility. There is a reason every mathematician on earth uses arabic numerals. [quote]No, I wasn't referring to Rumi. But I like him, too. It may have been Al-Farabi that I'm thinking of. It depends on the time period, because we studied Humanities in a cycle. Al-Farabi was from the medieval age.[/quote] holla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 [quote name='Hassan' post='1601948' date='Jul 17 2008, 01:00 PM']Then your out of luck. Even Frege's quantifier logic built on the Scholastics, and that was one of the most unprescidented discoveries in history Give me five counterexamples examples no Yes however the Arabic numeral system is unique in it's utility. There is a reason every mathematician on earth uses arabic numerals. holla[/quote] Muslims did not invent Arabic or anything related to Arabic. Not going to reply to the other comments/questions which are--again--insulting to my intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1602353' date='Jul 17 2008, 09:08 PM']Muslims did not invent Arabic or anything related to Arabic.[/quote] I never intended to claim they did. I said "Improvised" when I meant "improved" however I think the context makes it clear that I was not claiming they made any utterly origional discoveries. They did help standardise Arabic like Luther with German [quote]Not going to reply to the other comments/questions which are--again--insulting to my intelligence.[/quote] How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1602353' date='Jul 17 2008, 09:08 PM']Muslims did not invent Arabic or anything related to Arabic.[/quote] I never intended to claim they did. I said "Improvised" when I meant "improved" however I think the context makes it clear that I was not claiming they made any utterly origional discoveries. They did help standardise Arabic like Luther with German [quote]Not going to reply to the other comments/questions which are--again--insulting to my intelligence.[/quote] How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Thanks then. You've answered my question. Muslims (re: the Islamic world) have contributed NOTHING [b]original[/b] to the world of science and medicine. That's what I was looking to find out and now I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1602611' date='Jul 18 2008, 07:45 AM']Thanks then. You've answered my question. Muslims (re: the Islamic world) have contributed NOTHING [b]original[/b] to the world of science and medicine. That's what I was looking to find out and now I know.[/quote] No, I said they didn't make any utterly origional, unprecidented, totally out of the vacume discoveries. And neither has the Western world. no one has, as Mr. Nietzsche said, there is nothing really "new" under the sun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galloglasses Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 Technically Jesus was New. The only guy to be hated when he lived, died, and is still hated 2000 years on, just for giving a beaver dam about people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 [quote name='Galloglasses' post='1602804' date='Jul 18 2008, 02:36 PM']Technically Jesus was New. The only guy to be hated when he lived, died, and is still hated 2000 years on, just for giving a beaver dam about people.[/quote] I think Hitchens and his lot are they only one's depraved enought to be so vulgar towards Jesus. I don't know anyone else who hates him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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