Paladin D Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 My friend has a question, and am not 100% exactly sure how to answer. If you kill yourself........ for a "noble" cause....... and you have the LORD in your heart, where do you think your Soul goes? In your opinion or state the Bible if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary's Knight, La Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 get clarification on a noble cause but... if he means to raise awareness of an issue then it would be determined by mortal sin that the person was culpable of and who but God can judge that suicide counts as mortal sin as thou shalt not kill, includes thyself ;-) hope it helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Do you mean giving your Life for someone? Such as pushing someone out of the way in front of a car? Or starving yourself for something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FX2 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 do you kill urself like in suicide, or do you kill yourself as in trying to save someone from a train by pushing them outta the way but u get it? the first one is not worth it, as in im gonna kill myself to end abortion. God does not want us to do that, plus i doubt that would do anything productive for the pro life movement. The latter, i believe is the ultimate sacrifce and gift u can give. Such as on Sept 11, i bet some of the firefighters believed that they wouldnt make it out, but as long as they saved some people, it was well worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 "Noble" as in to save another's life, a group of people, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rev Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 My dream of the way I would like to die, would be to save someone elses live and give up mine. To take a bullet for someone, or push someone out from the way of a car. That is my dream way of dieing! I would love to die like that, but of course first would be a martyr for standing up for my faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebirth flame Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 If you kill yourself........ for a "noble" cause....... and you have the LORD in your heart, where do you think your Soul goes? it would also depend on the formation of your concience, as well, wouldn't it??? ex: if you were brought up with parents that stole to survive, you would learn that stealing is "ok" because it's the only way for you to survive. Likewise, if your brought up with stealing being bad, then your concious would rightly know that it is wrong, and to steal then would be a sin. To sin, we have to know what we're doing is wrong, and choose to do it anyway. Now, to kill yourself for a noble cause could be one of four things. If your concience is misformed, and what you're choosing is immoral (ex. being Sept. 11 w/ the suicide bombers crashing into buildings), you personally may not know what you did is wrong, therefor not fulfilling the requirements for what a true sin really is. if you slam your plane into a building fully knowing it is wrong, and choosing to do it anyway with your only intention being to cause death or pain to others, then it would be immoral. say maybe you push someone out of the way of a train, and, with all seriousness, you happen to get caught in it's path in the process, there'd be nothing wrong there, as you're spreading Jesus's gospel of Love and Charity to others through your sacrifice. You would not, however (in my opinion), want to go into the situation looking for a noble cause so that you can forefit your life justly, because your motive of spreading love, has turned into one of greed. (you want to die, so you push someone out of the way just so you can get hit) the ends do not justify the means. this is very important to take into account. if something made no sence, or you have a question (as i often confuse people), just post it below or pm me. I tried to take every scenario into account that i could think of, but i might have missed one. I hope this helped in some way. God Bless!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebirth flame Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 (edited) "Noble" as in to save another's life, a group of people, etc... then, i believe, that having had the right intention and making the ultimate sacrifice, God would graciously invite him into your kingdom. I, however, am not here to judge, and i obviously can't say that what i said is true. i personally believe it to be so. If anyone disagrees with my comment, say so, as i do not want to provide incorrect information to anyone. Pax Christi Edited March 2, 2004 by Rebirth flame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 could we apply St. Thomas Aquinas's theory of double effect here? just a thought. your intent is to save a life, the loss of your own life is the double effect. you cannot for any reason purposefully kill yourself with the intent of killing yourself. you can, however, save someone else's life with the intent of saving their life even if you know you might die in the process. i've never used double effect in this sense of self-killing, nor heard it used in this sense, so help me if i'm wrong. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 "Noble" as in to save another's life, a group of people, etc... I think it would be good to die by jumping in front of a bullet to save some people or something like that. Or to die on the battlefield like warriors back in the day who fought off barbarian invaders with the sword. I think these would be heroic ways to give up your life. This is basically how Christ died, it was "a death he freely accepted" in order to save us. I think of this when I read things in the Bible such as "Yahweh is a warrior". Our God is a warrior and Christ's heart is that of the bravest, most valiant warrior who has ever been on this earth. Christ is a champion, a hero, a valiant and bold warrior-king who's enemies shall be made His footstool. "I have set my king on Zion, my holy hill"; "You are my son, today I have begotten you. Ask of me and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession. You shall break them with a rod of iron, and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel." "You are the fairest of the sons of men; grace is poured upon your lips; therefore God has blessed you forever. Gird your sword upon your thigh, O mighty one, in your glory and majesty! In your majesty ride forth victoriously for the cause of truth and to defend the right; let your right hand teach you dread deeds! Your arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; the peoples fall under you. Your divine throne endures for ever and ever." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willguy Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I'm gonna guess that the Church's position on dieing in the act of saving another is favorable (case in point- St. Maximillian Kolbe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 is double effect applicable or am i wrong? i think it is St. Thomas Aquinas rox! ^_^ :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 There is no greater love than for one to give his life for his friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Could giving your life for someone also mean something else? Like spending your life taking care of handicap person whilst not having a life outside of that except for church? What I mean is, giving up everything to take care of someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Absolutely. Martyrdom comes in many forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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