Home Schoolers Threaten Our Cultural Comfort

[kafka]

and that is sad about your friend Hassan. It scares me to think how many potential geniuses there are out there or brilliance that is simply left unactualized. Very sad. Learning and knowledge helps to transform lives and it helps to change the world.

[Hassan]

I also used to be agraid of numbers. I had some truely traumatic experiences with math. I had to condition myself and discover a love of symbolic logic before I could appreciate it.

[Hassan]

[quote name='kafka' post='1870049' date='May 18 2009, 01:30 AM']and that is sad about your friend Hassan. It scares me to think how many potential geniuses there are out there or brilliance that is simply left unactualized. Very sad. Learning and knowledge helps to transform lives and it helps to change the world.[/quote]


No kidding.

[kafka]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1870048' date='May 18 2009, 01:29 AM']Hey Kafka, I don't know when your calling it a night but remember to keep your head up and stay in toutch with the larger world, drop by every now and again, and remember to swim for the shore while you pray [/quote]
thanks Hassan, I still have a few things to do tonight.

I was telling TTM that I am going to stay in touch here, but probably spend a little less time here than I have lately. Even if I decide to get rid of my laptop, since it might start to way me down, I will still have internet access at the library. So I will check in here.

grace and peace to you Hassan.

thank you.

[Hassan]

[quote name='kafka' post='1870052' date='May 18 2009, 01:33 AM']thanks Hassan, I still have a few things to do tonight.

I was telling TTM that I am going to stay in touch here, but probably spend a little less time here than I have lately. Even if I decide to get rid of my laptop, since it might start to way me down, I will still have internet access at the library. So I will check in here.

grace and peace to you Hassan.

thank you.[/quote]

I'd reather you didn't talk to that woman but whatever.

Glad to hear it


You should get a Facebook

[missionseeker]

[url="http://www.amazon.com/Call-Brilliance-Inspire-Parents-Educators/dp/0977836908"]http://www.amazon.com/Call-Brilliance-Insp...s/dp/0977836908[/url]

good book. urge you all to read it.

[Hassan]

[quote name='missionseeker' post='1870056' date='May 18 2009, 12:47 AM'][url="http://www.amazon.com/Call-Brilliance-Inspire-Parents-Educators/dp/0977836908"]http://www.amazon.com/Call-Brilliance-Insp...s/dp/0977836908[/url]

good book. urge you all to read it.[/quote]


Blank Slate theory is bad. Some of inteligence is genetics. I mean all of it is but you know what I mean. I think the book is right in that, as far as I know, enviorment plays a huge role in determining intelegence and at times and substitute for genetic endowment.

cool book

[kafka]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1870054' date='May 18 2009, 01:36 AM']I'd reather you didn't talk to that woman but whatever.

Glad to hear it


You should get a Facebook [/quote]


I'm not into Facebook and stuff. I used to write a blog, but I got away from that too, since I realized I need to foster some more intellectual and spiritual growth before I can start writing things that will really change the world, if I ever get to that point at all.

[quote name='missionseeker' post='1870056' date='May 18 2009, 01:47 AM'][url="http://www.amazon.com/Call-Brilliance-Inspire-Parents-Educators/dp/0977836908"]http://www.amazon.com/Call-Brilliance-Insp...s/dp/0977836908[/url]

good book. urge you all to read it.[/quote]
neat book.

[quote name='Hassan' post='1870057' date='May 18 2009, 01:52 AM']Blank Slate theory is bad. Some of inteligence is genetics. I mean all of it is but you know what I mean. I think the book is right in that, as far as I know, enviorment plays a huge role in determining intelegence and at times and substitute for genetic endowment.

cool book [/quote]
Upon self-reflection of my own personal history, as well as other's I've seen and read about. I am astonished at how sensitive human beings especially young ones undergoing rapid develepment; are sensitive to outside stimuli, and how this experience of growing up in a particular environment can literally launch someone into a open and exuberant future, or may on the otherhand damage one and stifle one.

Its taken me years to overcome a lot of damage caused by bad influences of adults (not my parents) but adults who I mistakenly looked up to when I was younger, as well as the damage co-determined by the effects of original sin, which can stifle genetics, since these effects are bodily.

I mean human nature is so wonderfully sophisticated, and sensitive, and open to everything. One has to leave oneself and be immersed in the material/historical/categorical dimension in order to come back into his spiritual self and ultimately to God. Its a unity and a totally. Unfortunately, what one finds outside of oneself as far as environment/school other humans, etc. can be damaging.

That is why I try to live by grace. Everything can be overwhelming when I face this world, history, all the horror, all the sin, all the uncertainty, as well as all the beauty, all the goodness, and brilliance, etc. I cannot and am not able to live by my own power alone.



Well its late. Hope that made some sense.

[Era Might]

I have a professor who hates the institutionalized "education system." He does not lecture in class. Instead, he gives a topic question based on whatever book the class is reading, has the students write about it, and then they discuss it in small groups. He doesn't consider it his job to lecture, but rather to facilitate discussion. For his papers, he doesn't give any topics or instructions. He just gives a minimum page length, and the paper should be based on whatever the class is reading. When he gives feedback, he doesn't "correct" the paper; rather, he engages the ideas and arguments in the paper. His classes are "easy" in a certain sense, but they are the most challenging because the student is in control of the learning. I don't know if this approach would necessarily work for every subject (the sciences, for example, probably require lecturing). But the essential idea of what he's doing is to make the student responsible for learning, rather than making education into a system that is ordered toward satisfying requirements. I imagine that many homeschoolers choose to homeschool for similar reasons.

[virginiancatholic]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1870101' date='May 18 2009, 07:07 AM']But the essential idea of what he's doing is to make the student responsible for learning, rather than making education into a system that is ordered toward satisfying requirements. I imagine that many homeschoolers choose to homeschool for similar reasons.[/quote]

If I have children, my goal for their education would be precisely that: they learn how to learn in order to search for truth, to question every issue and be able to examine it thoroughly, and to develop a grounded and rounded world view. Ideally, education should foster a love a learning and encourage each child to follow their passion and develop their interests. It wasn't until I got to college and out of homeschooling that I found out reading could be a chore and horribly boring. Who would have known that people could take something so enjoyable and uplifting as reading and turn it into a punishment! Yay for college.

My mother didn't really do this so much. We homeschooled for religious reasons more than the academic, and she was constantly wanting us to do everything that was done in the public school system and more. I understand where she is coming from, because a high school education wasn't something she was able to pursue, and her goal for education is so that her children can support themselves.

I think the original article was well written and that the author did a pretty good job of addressing the subject and writing things out, especially considering his background and audience. Generalization I think is at times necessary for the sake of argument/discussion, which should be obvious by all the generalizations made in this discussion.

Furthermore, most of the drawbacks to homeschooling and/or public schooling that have been mentioned can really go either way. One cannot forget that we are dealing not only with individuals, complex as they are, but also with families made up of individuals, who all have different values and are just as complex. Different things will be lacking in different families. Socialization, competencies, religious sensitivity, sense of fashion, etc. are more to do with persons, I think, though they are definitely influenced by institutions. It all comes down to the freedom to make choices for oneself.

I think the point being made about Asian school systems, specifically China and Japan, is that their standards are way higher than ours and their children are for all intensive purposes smarter. However, looking at other things in their culture, things are not balanced properly, and as someone mentioned, the rural places in China and such have no education whatsoever. The allocation of resources is skewed greatly. Not that this has anything to do with it, but all the "Unknown Children" in China (the ones who are born and hidden from government eyes, passed from one relative to the next to the next in order to keep them hidden) who do not "exist" have no education whatsoever. As a whole though, their educated kids are "armed and dangerous" as it were.

Also, on the abuse end of things, it really is shocking how much it goes on. If someone wants to abuse their kids, they will do it regardless. Abuse is a complicated issue, and occurs very often throughout the states, within families of all walks of life, economic statuses, homeschoolers and public schoolers. Lots of folks who abuse children are good at hiding it...the public schools are loaded with them. I don't want to make this the issue of this thread...just to point out that it is not as simple as some of you seem to be making it.

[Socrates]

I was homeschooled in high school, and have known a lot of homeschooling families (and have also worked a few years grading for a homeschool program.)
The main thing I can say about homeschoolers is that you really can't make any blanket statements about them one way or the other. Homeschooling (like any other kind of schooling, really) is only worth what you put into it. Some families can make it into a brilliant success, while some fail miserably.
Most of the home-schooled kids I've known are intelligent and well-adjusted.
There are a few who are the stereotypical ultra-sheltered, "unsocialized," "weird" home-schooled families, but they are more the exception than the norm.
(And from what I've seen, such an environment encourages rebellion as much as anything else).

Most home-schooling families provide lots of opportunities for their kids to interact with other kids, and get out and interact with others in the "real world."
Keeping the kids basically totally confined to their home, and never really letting them interact with others is an abuse of home-schooling, but most hs families aren't like that.

The thing about homeschoolers being better able to interact with adults and people of a variety of ages is actually a very legitimate point, and one that is often brought up in debates on homeschooling. The whole system of kids spending much of their lives mainly with people within a year or so of their own age is a very artificial environment, which doesn't correspond to the "real world" or any natural human society.

Having gone to college with plenty of homeschoolers, I can say that most of them can't really be distinguished from those who attended regular school.

The idea that homeschoolers are unable to interact in the real world is bunk. One homeschooled girl who I knew from college went on to a very successful entrepreneur at a young age, and was featured as a contestant on "The Apprentice" a few years ago.

Edited May 19, 2009 by Socrates

[CatherineM]

I homeschooled for academic reasons. Grade 2-3 for the little one and 5-6 for the older one. I can't imagine trying to do highschool without a lot of help, especially in the sciences. I used the Calvert program and was very happy with the composition and help. They socialized with lots of kids at little league and boy scouts, but until they went back to pubic school, it didn't dawn on me that they had spent two years without being around girls. That led to some weirdness.

[mcts]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1870626' date='May 18 2009, 10:00 PM']They socialized with lots of kids at little league and boy scouts, but until they went back to pubic school, it didn't dawn on me that they had spent two years without being around girls. That led to some weirdness.[/quote]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1596855' date='Jul 10 2008, 09:41 AM']Yeah, our family is not at all like that stereotype... However, I agree with the point that when one family makes a choice that is "countercoulter," other families do tend to seem a little defensive... when our choice really had nothing to do with other families.[/quote]
I agree with your comment because even though we weren't planning on having our second child so soon, we obviously are choosing to let God do as He sees fit. As a result of our family's choice to submit to God's will, I had a prominent parishioner tell me to my face at work that I need to start using condoms.

Anyway, I actually like knowing that I'm living life in a non-conformist (yet ironically traditional) way. It helps me to know that I'm doing what's right, because I don't trust the voice of the masses.

Jen and I would love to homeschool...if we could afford it (and we don't have those luxuries listed in the article, just low-paying Church positions and student loans).

[virginiancatholic]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1870842' date='May 19 2009, 09:02 AM']I agree with your comment because even though we weren't planning on having our second child so soon, we obviously are choosing to let God do as He sees fit. As a result of our family's choice to submit to God's will, I had a prominent parishioner tell me to my face at work that I need to start using condoms.

Anyway, I actually like knowing that I'm living life in a non-conformist (yet ironically traditional) way. It helps me to know that I'm doing what's right, because I don't trust the voice of the masses.

Jen and I would love to homeschool...if we could afford it (and we don't have those luxuries listed in the article, just low-paying Church positions and student loans).[/quote]

Funny that, because most of the flack we got about being a larger-than-average family came from fellow parishoners too.

Homeschooling can be done for almost no financial investment with the very young grades...where there's a will there's a way. If any family is meant to homeschool, God will provide the means at the right time.