Breastfeeding At Mass

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1595620' date='Jul 8 2008, 10:02 PM']+J.M.J.+
are you a parent? as a fairly new parent, i try to settle my babe down, not immediately make a mad dash for the gathering area (or what have you). parents need support, not dirty looks and condemnation. [/quote]

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to judge. As someone else stated, my problem is with the poor parenting. I have seen parents allow their children to carry on, and I have seen parents take their time and not offer enough solace to their child to quiet him/her down. If it's clear that you're trying your best, then there's nothing wrong with that. But I think that if a person's child acts up every single Sunday, the child should not be brought until he/she is ready to be brought.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1595632' date='Jul 8 2008, 08:13 PM']But I think that if a person's child acts up every single Sunday, the child should not be brought until he/she is ready to be brought.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
i don't agree. again, if they aren't brought to church and told (especially with little ones) time and time again what to do and not to do, then it will take them forever to learn! for example, my girl is 16 months old, been going to church from a very little age, and just within the past couple of weeks has started to remember where the holy water font is (and that you dunk your ), where the pews are, and now started to know when you clasp your hands in prayer (well, she knows to do it when the kneelers are down ). do you honestly think if i hadn't brought her from day one (practically), and weathered the tough times (and i'm sure there are more to come!! ), that she would be half as well behaved as she is now?

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
and i will take total blame for the hijack of my own thread

[havok579257]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1595632' date='Jul 8 2008, 10:13 PM']I'm sorry, I'm not trying to judge. As someone else stated, my problem is with the poor parenting. I have seen parents allow their children to carry on, and I have seen parents take their time and not offer enough solace to their child to quiet him/her down. If it's clear that you're trying your best, then there's nothing wrong with that. But I think that if a person's child acts up every single Sunday, the child should not be brought until he/she is ready to be brought.[/quote]

So kids should never learn how to act in church until they are an adult? How else are kids going to learn the millions of things just during mass unless they start at a young age? Should we not help our kids recieve the Lord's blessing? Should we teach them that if they act up, they ge out of mass?

Obviously you have no kids of your own because your statements seem like you have never dealt with a child one day in your life?

[homeschoolmom]

Seems there are two different conversations going on-- screaming babies and breastfeeding.... maybe if there was more breastfeeding, there would be fewer screaming babies. ... Just saying.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1595667' date='Jul 8 2008, 09:01 PM']Seems there are two different conversations going on-- screaming babies and breastfeeding.... maybe if there was more breastfeeding, there would be fewer screaming babies. ... Just saying. [/quote]
+J.M.J.+


phunniest post i've seen in a long time.

[BG45]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1595385' date='Jul 8 2008, 07:45 PM']+J.M.J.+

totally agreed to everything. (especially your last sentence )

many babies won't do a bottle (mine wouldn't). many women can't pump milk very well.

and i totally do NOT advocate splitting up a family. as far as i know, that's a Protestant thing (sending babies to a cry room, children to a children's service, moms & dads to a 'regular' service), not a Catholic thing. (at least, here in my city )[/quote]

I know I'm a bit late, but this is just a nitpick. I've never been to a Protestant church that makes you split your family up as you say, or has a 'cry room'. Just a nursery staffed by volunteers.

Although my cousin M's baby is just the way you describe, won't eat a bottle at all, nor does she pump that well even if the kiddo would take a bottle without a fuss.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='BG45' post='1595679' date='Jul 8 2008, 09:14 PM']I know I'm a bit late, but this is just a nitpick. I've never been to a Protestant church that makes you split your family up as you say, or has a 'cry room'. Just a nursery staffed by volunteers.

Although my cousin M's baby is just the way you describe, won't eat a bottle at all, nor does she pump that well even if the kiddo would take a bottle without a fuss.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
like i said, this is my experience in my city. though i should amend it to all the evangelical churches in my city (of which there are 4 huge ones)

[Theoketos]

There should be a yes with out discretion for the word discretion in this context implies there is something wrong with breasts and breastfeeding. No woman should feel ashamed or relegated to any corner (so she can be discrete) to do what God intends her to do. It sounds like a compilation of puritanism and the culture of death to me if people have a problem with such things. If any one gave my wife and child a look for breastfeeding, they would get more then a look from me in return, out of charity...

And now for an art history lesson to prove such things have a sacred and fitting nature, the Madonna Lactans:

[img]http://lh3.ggpht.com/_5ge2CtXSevI/Rwxi_UZdLuI/AAAAAAAAAFU/khfRN99OF_c/slide0206_image112.jpg[/img]

[img]http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/gallery/holihan8t.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.museodiocesano.it/images/Opere/2001.092.023.jpg[/img]

For a bunch more images of [i]Maria Lactans[/i] check out

www.marialactans.com

And just for good measure, here is Mary breastfeeding St. Bernard of Clarvieux, doctor of the Church. He had a vision in which she breast fed him as a metaphor which showed the means he obtains knowledge of God and grace.


[img]http://www.namurois.org/neorbe/public/sanctoral/cano2.jpg[/img]

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1595638' date='Jul 8 2008, 10:18 PM']+J.M.J.+
i don't agree. again, if they aren't brought to church and told (especially with little ones) time and time again what to do and not to do, then it will take them forever to learn! for example, my girl is 16 months old, been going to church from a very little age, and just within the past couple of weeks has started to remember where the holy water font is (and that you dunk your ), where the pews are, and now started to know when you clasp your hands in prayer (well, she knows to do it when the kneelers are down ). do you honestly think if i hadn't brought her from day one (practically), and weathered the tough times (and i'm sure there are more to come!! ), that she would be half as well behaved as she is now?[/quote]

Not all parents are as lucky as you Anyway, look at it like this. Some children, in Kindergarten, are held back because the teacher/parents feel that their child is not quite ready to advance, and usually this is because of their behavior. I'm sure that there are some children who are simply not ready to be in Mass, whether it's because they have to sit still and be (generally) quiet, or perhaps they aren't ready to be around so many strangers, or maybe they're afraid of the music (this may sound silly, but it's true! I have a little cousin who is so afraid of the "Happy Birthday" song he screams and cries whenever he hears it). I'm sure that many children, while acting up sometimes, can handle Church fairly well, but there are plenty of others who simply can't.

[quote]Obviously you have no kids of your own because your statements seem like you have never dealt with a child one day in your life?[/quote]

I really, really do not appreciate this at all.

[MissyP89]

Note: I'm not a parent, and won't be for a good five years. So my responses might be biased.

Regarding breastfeeding, I answered that I wasn't sure, because every mother and child are different. If it can be done comfortably and discretely and doesn't distract people, then have fun! Like Meg said, a kid's gotta eat. Personally, I don't think I'm coordinated enough to manage it without exposing myself, but that's just me.

And on loud babies in Church, I can see both sides.

Once, a month or so back, there was a very fussy baby at Mass. The parents tried really hard to calm her down, but eventually the father got up to take her to the cry room. My pastor stopped his homily and very nicely said that the baby was more than welcome to stay in the sanctuary and be fussy. It got worse a few minutes later, so again he tried to leave. Father (who is a very boisterous Italian guy) was like, "I [i]said[/i] she's fine. Now sit down! " We all had a laugh over it, and the parents were very appreciative. Christ said let the little ones come to Him.

But I also know that it's very hard for me personally to focus when there's a poor baby wailing away to high heaven during Mass. That's just natural--you can't really find your "zone" when a baby is screaming. I don't focus on the baby, nor do I stare, etc...but it definitely hinders Mass for me. Chatty people and ringing cell phones do the same thing, but those are rude, not just kids being who they are.

Letting Mom go to Mass one time and Dad go another seems very practical to me. If the family is living the Catholic life, they will share in their faith all the time, not for just one hour, even if it is a special one. Read Scripture, pray the rosary, etc. There are an abundance of graces from those, too. But again, I'm an only child and have no kids, so I'm not exactly an authority.

I forget exactly how old I was when I first went to Mass, but one of my first memories of Church is of my mother bringing me to the Church while Mass wasn't being celebrated. She taught me about Mass there, and how to behave. It was there as well that I first learned to pray. By the time she did take me to Mass, there were no problems, and I knew that God was there, and behaved as such. (Of course, there were always moments where I acted up, or went "Ooooh Mommy what's that?!?!?" while pointing and bouncing excitedly).

In short, I guess I'll figure it out when I get there--talk it out with my priest and husband. I see where you all are coming from.

[picchick]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1595616' date='Jul 8 2008, 09:58 PM']there isnt a "yes, if done INdiscreetly" option


what if it is with something like this?
[img]http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/hkh0040l.jpg[/img][/quote]


Great pick me upper!!! Thanks!

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1595632' date='Jul 8 2008, 10:13 PM']But I think that if a person's child acts up every single Sunday, the child should not be brought until he/she is ready to be brought.[/quote]
Practice makes perfect. A child will never learn unless there is consistency and if they are disciplined over and over again. Continue to bring them. If they misbehave you do the same thing. Dad would bring us to the car...then we'd go back into the Church. The child will never be ready to be brought unless they are used to what they are seeing.

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1595667' date='Jul 8 2008, 11:01 PM']Seems there are two different conversations going on-- screaming babies and breastfeeding.... maybe if there was more breastfeeding, there would be fewer screaming babies. ... Just saying. [/quote]

AWESOME POST!
[quote name='Theoketos' post='1595690' date='Jul 8 2008, 11:28 PM']There should be a yes with out discretion for the word discretion in this context implies there is something wrong with breasts and breastfeeding. No woman should feel ashamed or relegated to any corner (so she can be discrete) to do what God intends her to do. It sounds like a compilation of puritanism and the culture of death to me if people have a problem with such things. If any one gave my wife and child a look for breastfeeding, they would get more then a look from me in return, out of charity...

And now for an art history lesson to prove such things have a sacred and fitting nature, the Madonna Lactans:[/quote]

But that is Mary...she can do whatever she wants. If anyone questions her, they have to answer to Jesus.

Don't go into a corner...but cover yourself with a sheet/blanket/whatev. Modesty still needs to upheld...

I am not a parent...yet...maybe someday God willing. And if God will it I wil breast feed. But again, I am not going to whip it out to feed my kid. It would be immodest. It is still a breast even though the purpose changed.

Meg

[BG45]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1595681' date='Jul 9 2008, 12:17 AM']+J.M.J.+
like i said, this is my experience in my city. though i should amend it to all the evangelical churches in my city (of which there are 4 huge ones) [/quote]

Sorry sped read the thread and missed 'my city;.

But 4 huge ones...heh. Only two here that could rate mega-church status. We have a ton of small ones though.

[Archaeology cat]

Haven't read everything, so sorry if I'm repeating.

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1595384' date='Jul 8 2008, 11:41 PM']I think that it should be done in private. Or, perhaps the mother could use a breast pump and bring a bottle with her if the child needs to eat. Anyway, it would be best for the mother and father to switch off going to Mass so that one of them can be home with their baby, particularly if the baby is a newborn.[/quote]
As Red said, not everyone can pump, not every baby will take a bottle. Or some moms are like me, doing ecological breastfeeding and refuse to pump. I also refuse to not go to Mass as a family.

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1595385' date='Jul 8 2008, 11:45 PM']+J.M.J.+

totally agreed to everything. (especially your last sentence )

many babies won't do a bottle (mine wouldn't). many women can't pump milk very well.

and i totally do NOT advocate splitting up a family. as far as i know, that's a Protestant thing (sending babies to a cry room, children to a children's service, moms & dads to a 'regular' service), not a Catholic thing. (at least, here in my city )[/quote]
Agreed.

Now, for what I do. I breastfeed completely on demand. Usually Kieran will have a little bit before Mass starts, but it's not unusual for him to want to eat some during Mass as well (happens about half the time). When he was really little I used a blanket or "hooter hider". Now that he's a bit bigger, he hates having a blanket over him. So I make sure I wear something that I can discreetly nurse him in. I also sit off to the far side so that I have a bit of privacy (there aren't many places to go in our church anyway, and I don't feel the need to take him out if he's not screaming). No one around me cares, or even notices; in fact, they always think he's asleep.

[Archaeology cat]

OK, now I've read all the posts.

[quote name='picchick' post='1595426' date='Jul 9 2008, 12:25 AM']Babies need to eat every few hours. They cannot wait like a toddler can. They need to eat when they need to eat. It is also part of their developmental stage. Their needs need to be met.

I think that it is important to start taking your children to Mass as early as possible and teaching them how to behave in Church. My mom and dad would not bring a newborn to Church until things were settled...which would be a couple of weeks. That is fine especially depending on the weather. However, I think that if you are going to raise a Catholic family you need to teach your family about the Mass. What better way than to bring them. I understand that babies do not undertand what is going on but as a family, the family should attend.

There is a way to breastfeed withoutmaking a deal out of it. You put a sheet over your shoulder and waa laa! Instant wall. They make things now that cover the whole front and the back where you are feeding so NOTHING shows at all. So I think that it can be done anywhere. I am not a fan of just pulling up your shirt and start feeding there...I think that for your own privacy (meaning that even though the breast is used for feeding it is still a breast) you need to do some covering.

Meg[/quote]
Totally agreed that children need to go to Mass from the beginning. I started taking Kieran at Christmas (he was born the very end of November). In general, he does very well and is even attentive sometimes. I will say, though, that there is a way to be discreet without having a sheet or nursing cover (for those babies, like Kieran, that hate being covered up). A friend of mine usually wears a nursing tank under her shirt. I don't do that, but wear something that I can easily nurse in without flashing anyone. Since Kieran's usually sleepy at Mass, I don't have a problem with him playing his games (such as liking to pull off and get sprayed in the face).


[quote name='Noel's angel' post='1595494' date='Jul 9 2008, 01:09 AM']I'm sure most of us here were brought up knowing when it is appropriate to talk and when it isn't. Nowadays though, people think it is fine for their kids to run around the church, shouting and crying. Recently, a family let their child wander off, then realised she was nowhere to be seen. Luckily an elderly woman found her at the entrance to the church and kept her there until the parents came for her.

I applaud all parents who bring their children up well, and as we all know, kids can be unpredictable. So I have complete understanding when a normally well-behaved child is restless now and again. My beef lies with the poor parenting, not the children.[/quote]
Yes, unfortunately there are a couple of children that are allowed to run around in Mass. But not many.

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1595625' date='Jul 9 2008, 03:07 AM']+J.M.J.+
imo, the only way that children learn to behave in Mass is going every week (or daily), and learning what is appropriate and not appropriate. it's not the child's fault if the parents go too infrequently to Mass to learn. (which really bugs me!)[/quote]