Mediatrix

[willguy]

I just thought, does Mary being the Mediatrix of All Graces mean that all grace is coming through Mary or has come through Mary. Lemme explain what I mean:

Christ is God. All grace comes from God. Christ was born of Mary. Therefore, all grace has come through Mary.

Now, saying that all grace is coming through Mary means that as grace is being bestowed now, it is coming through Mary's mediation. Is that the case, or is it more of all grace came through Mary through the Incarnation and that some graces come through her again as we ask her for intercession and mediation?

[M.SIGGA]

thanks jake, but that didn't really answer my question. I understand saying she physically brought Jesus into the world, but does all God's grace flow through her - other than when she is specifically envoked? Like when I made my Confirmation and the Bishop said "Be sealed..." did that come through Mary or directly from God/the Holy Spirit?

[Laudate_Dominum]

I just thought, does Mary being the Mediatrix of All Graces mean that all grace is coming through Mary or has come through Mary.  Lemme explain what I mean:

Christ is God.  All grace comes from God.  Christ was born of Mary.  Therefore, all grace has come through Mary.

Now, saying that all grace is coming through Mary means that as grace is being bestowed now, it is coming through Mary's mediation.  Is that the case, or is it more of all grace came through Mary through the Incarnation and that some graces come through her again as we ask her for intercession and mediation?

I touched upon this in my previous post with the distinction between Mary's "remote mediation" and her "immediate mediation". These are the two basic aspects of Mary's Maternal Mediation. Here are two statements from "Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma" that express these two dimensions:

"1. Mary gave the Redeemer, the Source of all graces, to the world, and in this way she is the channel of all graces. (sent. certa.)" - This expresses Mary's remote mediation.

"2. Since Mary's Assumption into Heaven no grace is conferred on man without her actual intercessory co-operation. (Sen. pia et probabilis)." - This expresses Mary's proximate or immediate mediation.

I said more about this in my previous posts. The second mode of Mary's Maternal Mediation is most intimately linked with Her role as Coredemptrix. Think of Mary at the foot of the cross as the New Eve who, in the words of Pope Leo XIII, "represents the whole human race". Her sinless, maternal Heart first recieved the graces of Redemption and in perfect union with Christ the former Eve (and fallen humanity) was, as it were, submerged in Her womb and born anew as the spotless Bride of Christ. She is the Mother of the Living. St. John Eudes expresses it by saying that "the Hearts of Jesus and Mary are as one heart". St. Bernard of Clairvaux describes Mary's role using the Body of Christ image, saying that as Christ is the Head and we are the body, Mary is the neck. It's not the most elegant image in the world but it was pretty standard in the middle ages.

Here are some of Pope John Paul II's words on the subject.

"Enlightened by the fullness of Christ's light, Mary, Mediatrix of all graces, reflects him in order to give him to all her children." - L'Observatore Romano, October 2, 1989.

Also the Pope's encyclical, Redemptoris Mater, has a beautiful exposition of this doctrine.

[willguy]

So even the graces of those who deny Mary's role (i.e. Protestants) still come through Mary?

[Laudate_Dominum]

So even the graces of those who deny Mary's role (i.e. Protestants) still come through Mary?

yes indeed! I think that will be a big surprise for protestants after they die. They will realize the love of their Mother who was with them all along.

[M.SIGGA]

How were the graces recieved at Pentecost and to the Early Church before the BVM died and was assumed? How did graces pass through her since she wasn't in heaven yet. Bear with me, I'm no theologian and I'm still confused :unsure:

[willguy]

I would say that in a sense the graces did come through her, as Christ came through her, Christ is God, and God is the source of grace. So she was already the source of the source of grace.

I think its important to remember that God doesn't have to use Mary to dispense grace. She obviously wasn't the Mediatrix of Grace in the Old Testament. He chose to use her. So, the graces at Pentecost did not come through her in the same way that they do now, but they still came through her in a way.

[M.SIGGA]

I would say that in a sense the graces did come through her, as Christ came through her, Christ is God, and God is the source of grace. So she was already the source of the source of grace.

I think its important to remember that God doesn't have to use Mary to dispense grace. She obviously wasn't the Mediatrix of Grace in the Old Testament. He chose to use her. So, the graces at Pentecost did not come through her in the same way that they do now, but they still came through her in a way.

I can live with this, thanks :D

[Laudate_Dominum]

How were the graces recieved at Pentecost and to the Early Church before the BVM died and was assumed? How did graces pass through her since she wasn't in heaven yet. Bear with me, I'm no theologian and I'm still confused

Mary was in the upper room at pentecost and would have been praying and interceding on behalf of the Church. This is why images often depict Mary in the center, she is as it were the heart of the Church. So while on the physical level Mary was just another person in a group of people in a room praying, on the supernatural level Mary was the Mediatrix and the Spouse of the Holy Spirit without which Pentecost would not have happened.

Here is a quote from John Paul II:

40. After the events of the Resurrection and Ascension Mary entered the Upper Room together with the Apostles to await Pentecost, and was present there as the Mother of the glorified Lord. She was not only the one who "advanced in her pilgrimage of faith" and loyally persevered in her union with her Son "unto the Cross," but she was also the "handmaid of the Lord," left by her Son as Mother in the midst of the infant Church: "Behold your mother." Thus there began to develop a special bond between this Mother and the Church. For the infant Church was the fruit of the Cross and Resurrection of her Son. Mary, who from the beginning had given herself without reserve to the person and work of her Son, could not but pour out upon the Church, from the very beginning, her maternal self-giving. After her Son's departure, her motherhood remains in the Church as maternal mediation: interceding for all her children, the Mother cooperates in the saving work of her Son, the Redeemer of the world. In fact the Council teaches that the "motherhood of Mary in the order of grace...will last without interruption until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect."103 With the redeeming death of her Son, the maternal mediation of the handmaid of the Lord took on a universal dimension, for the work of redemption embraces the whole of humanity. Thus there is manifested in a singular way the efficacy of the one and universal mediation of Christ "between God and men" Mary's cooperation shares, in its subordinate character, in the universality of the mediation of the Redeemer, the one Mediator. This is clearly indicated by the Council in the words quoted above.

"For," the text goes on, "taken up to heaven, she did not lay aside this saving role, but by her manifold acts of intercession continues to win for us gifts of eternal salvation."104 With this character of "intercession," first manifested at Cana in Galilee, Mary's mediation continues in the history of the Church and the world. We read that Mary "by her maternal charity, cares for the brethren of her Son who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties, until they are led to their happy homeland."105 In this way Mary's motherhood continues unceasingly in the Church as the mediation which intercedes, and the Church expresses her faith in this truth by invoking Mary "under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adjutrix and Mediatrix."106

[Laudate_Dominum]

I would say that in a sense the graces did come through her, as Christ came through her, Christ is God, and God is the source of grace. So she was already the source of the source of grace.

I think its important to remember that God doesn't have to use Mary to dispense grace. She obviously wasn't the Mediatrix of Grace in the Old Testament. He chose to use her. So, the graces at Pentecost did not come through her in the same way that they do now, but they still came through her in a way.

I think that Mary was the Mediatrix of the Old Covenant in the sense of her remote mediation. She cooperated with God and brought forth our Salvation, namely Jesus Christ. The graces of Christ, who came in the fulness of time, sustain all of history and are the one source of all Redemption. I suppose you could look at it like this: just as Mary was preserved from the effects of original sin through the merits of Christ, so where Christ's merits active in the old covenant in a similar way. The entire order of the old covenant was dependent upon the joint predestination of Jesus and Mary. Thus the old covenant was fulfilled in the Messiah. Mary mediates this fulfillment in her remote maternal mediation and thus can be spoken of as Mediatrix in the context of the OT.

[Laudate_Dominum]

BUMP!

I was looking at way old threads and I found this one which was awesome. And it makes me miss Adeodatus.

[MorphRC]

Did anyone pass along the Catholic.Com article?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='MorphRC' date='Aug 7 2004, 03:29 AM'] Did anyone pass along the Catholic.Com article? [/quote]
I dunno? What catholic.com article? sounds interesting.

[MorphRC]

I cant access it. My nets gone nuts. But it explains the medatrix heaps well. I think theres another one on Traditional Catholic Apologetics.

[Mary's Knight, La]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Mar 2 2004, 10:35 PM'] yes indeed! I think that will be a big surprise for protestants after they die. They will realize the love of their Mother who was with them all along. [/quote]
aside from surprising, imagine what a beautiful scene it'll be though i guess i'd have to mean scene in the figurative event. thanks for bumping this one