Madame Vengier Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 [quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1591900' date='Jul 5 2008, 09:20 AM']I'm not playing a mind game. I'm just sick of the blanket statments and subtle hatred on phatmass when it comes to certain people. Moslem women could roll there sleeves just as well and still have headscarvs and appear moslem. Its not the issue. the idea that they need to FULLY integrate, wear scrubs or chef's uniforms or what be it, when monks and nuns can enjoy wearing their habits is not right.[/quote] *sigh* Into my ignore cave you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumn Dusk Posted July 5, 2008 Author Share Posted July 5, 2008 (edited) Blocking me isn't going to change your disregard for society. You mock celebs who are just human for making human mistakes and having human struggles. You blatantly cry out that people need to integrate and be just like everyone else. atleast I won't have to see your icon around my posts then. Edited July 5, 2008 by Autumn Dusk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 [quote name='mortify' post='1591896' date='Jul 5 2008, 10:18 AM']I guess it depends on how you define Muslim garb. If you're talking about a Muslim woman with niqaab and gloves, then I can see the problem, but the average Muslimah has already learned to accommodate and for these I don't see a problem.[/quote] What I find interesting is that there can't be a compromise-- couldn't a niqab-wearing nurse (or doctor) wear a surgical mask to cover her face (and have something else, like a sort of turtleneck) covering her neck? [quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1591900' date='Jul 5 2008, 10:20 AM']I'm not playing a mind game. I'm just sick of the blanket statments and subtle hatred on phatmass when it comes to certain people. Moslem women could roll there sleeves just as well and still have headscarvs and appear moslem. Its not the issue. the idea that they need to FULLY integrate, wear scrubs or chef's uniforms or what be it, when monks and nuns can enjoy wearing their habits is not right.[/quote] Could you please site an example of where a Muslim medical professional was not allowed a reasonable compromise? In most hospitals (as I understand it) scrubs are issued and cleaned by the hospital-- it is the standard uniform. Honestly, I don't know that a lot of habited nuns work in hospitals in the US anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madame Vengier Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 [quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1591914' date='Jul 5 2008, 09:33 AM']What I find interesting is that there can't be a compromise-- couldn't a niqab-wearing nurse (or doctor) wear a surgical mask to cover her face (and have something else, like a sort of turtleneck) covering her neck? Could you please site an example of where a Muslim medical professional was not allowed a reasonable compromise? In most hospitals (as I understand it) scrubs are issued and cleaned by the hospital-- it is the standard uniform. Honestly, I don't know that a lot of habited nuns work in hospitals in the US anymore.[/quote] Exactly. I will say one thing: When was the last time you (or someone you know) went into a restaurant and the chef was dressed in a religious habit? Or when was the last time you (or someone you know) went to the hospital and there were medical staff dressed in habits at all...let alone FULL habits with large sleeves? This is why I don't want the stress of dealing with stupid questions that seem geared towards instigating an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumn Dusk Posted July 5, 2008 Author Share Posted July 5, 2008 I was just watching the other debate and I was floored on how some people think the moslem women should just don a tee and jeans like everyone else or be locked in their houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumn Dusk Posted July 5, 2008 Author Share Posted July 5, 2008 first off, I know the monks of the northeast who make "monkbread" so when have I seen a guy in a habit baking. Recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Please don't exaggerate... it really lessens your argument. NO ONE said that if a Muslim woman did not wear a tee and jeans (or even "western" clothing) that she should be locked in the house. You are now arguing using emotion and not reason or facts. Someone can choose to dress however s/he wants (within legal standards-- no being buck nekkid, please), but s/he will have to realize that there is sometimes a downside. For example, during the priest abuse scandal, I am sure there were many men who where looked down on and perhaps uncomfortable wearing their collars. They realize that it is a sacrifice, but they are willing to make it. Many Catholic women wear a veil at Mass because it is their conviction to do so. Many feel looks of scorn. Likewise, many Muslim women realize that wearing a hijab or a niqab will "cost" them something-- stares, rude comments, maybe even some job opportunities. MOST either work to try to find a compromise or they realize that it is a sacrifice that they are willing to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 [quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1591920' date='Jul 5 2008, 10:51 AM']first off, I know the monks of the northeast who make "monkbread" so when have I seen a guy in a habit baking. Recently.[/quote] So what? Are you suggesting that germs are past from bread loaf to bread loaf on the monks' sleeves? As long as his hands are washed and the working environment is clean, there should be no problem... If that is distasteful to you, don't buy their bread. Unfortunately in a medical emergency, most of us are not offered the luxury of being able to pick and choose our caregivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumn Dusk Posted July 5, 2008 Author Share Posted July 5, 2008 I'm saying that if we don't discriminate against monks then we shouldn't discriminate against moslems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 [quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1591914' date='Jul 5 2008, 09:33 AM']What I find interesting is that there can't be a compromise-- couldn't a niqab-wearing nurse (or doctor) wear a surgical mask to cover her face (and have something else, like a sort of turtleneck) covering her neck?[/quote] Well I think there are several components to that answer. First you have to consider the fact that according to strict Islamic law, you should not be able to see the curves of a woman's body. Therefore tight fitting clothes like a turtle neck would be thrown out, and a face mask would not be able to cover the whole face, this would also be a problem when it comes to rolling up sleeves (since all skin would have to be covered) plus I imagine it's easier to breath through a niqaab than face mask. Lastly, there is always that traditional component of sticking to things that objectively manifest one's faith. Ultimately it depends how far a Muslim woman goes with her faith. An extreme using the niqaab will face many difficulties, but the average Muslim doesn't go to such extremes. Most have only retained the head scarf while embracing tight fitting clothing. For these I don't imagine a lot of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 [quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1591937' date='Jul 5 2008, 11:18 AM']I'm saying that if we don't discriminate against monks then we shouldn't discriminate against moslems.[/quote] I think the monks you refered to bake in their own monistaries..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 [quote name='mortify' post='1591943' date='Jul 5 2008, 11:34 AM']Well I think there are several components to that answer. First you have to consider the fact that according to strict Islamic law, you should not be able to see the curves of a woman's body. Therefore tight fitting clothes like a turtle neck would be thrown out, and a face mask would not be able to cover the whole face, this would also be a problem when it comes to rolling up sleeves (since all skin would have to be covered) plus I imagine it's easier to breath through a niqaab than face mask. Lastly, there is always that traditional component of sticking to things that objectively manifest one's faith. Ultimately it depends how far a Muslim woman goes with her faith. An extreme using the niqaab will face many difficulties, but the average Muslim doesn't go to such extremes. Most have only retained the head scarf while embracing tight fitting clothing. For these I don't imagine a lot of problems.[/quote] Okay... question... Would a woman be allowed to work on a male patient under the same strict Muslim law that would require her to wear a niqab? Because if not, then the whole question is pretty moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autumn Dusk Posted July 5, 2008 Author Share Posted July 5, 2008 the monks do work in a monistary, but there isn't any reason any other bakery couldn't operate like that (and heavens to betsy if it did, their bread is GOOD). And I didn't say let them all wear face-scarvs and gloves...im just talking about general clothing...headscarvs and dresses. Items which are not kouth in today's society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 bottom line: it's not going to kill us to see a woman in a hijab--unless it's Osama in disguise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 I don't think this is an argument about fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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