mulls Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 i totally agree with that monk. my question concerns baptism in the Church.....a baby is baptized and becomes a Christian due to somebody else's confession of faith....which may not even be true, considering my parents and godmother were/are hardly practicing, believing Catholics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foundsheep Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 I believe it works as long as you are baptized in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. You can make your profession of faith when you are older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IXpenguin21 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 a Christian can be someone who believes in the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as ONE God), and what it's all about (LOVE). i would call someone who says they believe in the Trinity and doesn't act as if their life is convicted by what the Trinity is, not a Christian. after all, satan believes in the Trinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted March 2, 2004 Author Share Posted March 2, 2004 i totally agree with that monk. my question concerns baptism in the Church.....a baby is baptized and becomes a Christian due to somebody else's confession of faith....which may not even be true, considering my parents and godmother were/are hardly practicing, believing Catholics. A baby knows what they are taught. Baptism is a cleanzing of the soul from original sin.... it replaces circumcision. If the child is raise to believe, that child will believe and have faith. That child is a Christian because all that child knows is Christianity. Many have asked me "Are you saved, when?" - I've always believed... was raised to believe... was baptised early... I've always been Christian... I knew nothing else.... So how can anyone ask when I was saved... This is why many Catholics are not sure how to answer non-Catholics when they ask this question... Christianity is all we knew from birth.... to say that a child must believe to be saved is condemning the child before they say "I accept". Some say that they are an exception, but no where in the bible does it lead one to believe that when looking at the bible from a non-Catholic point of view. As far as your parents and godmother are concerned; it's not their faith that makes you Christian, it's your baptism and if you believe you are living the way God intended... as you grew up and are growing up, the more you learn, the more will be expected of you as a Christian... We must learn about the teachings of Christ and know our faith; but we cannot possibly expect to know it all at once... if we do some bad things out of ignorance, it will not be as bad as if we knew the law of God and broke it. Don't get me wrong, your parents and godmothers faith is important, but there lack of it (per say) does not reflect less on you. God is merciful and loving. Everything is in God's plan. He calls us all at different times. Your faith and prayer can help your parents and godmother. Your parents and godmother planted the seed and it appears to be growing... the tree of that seed (you) could nurish your parents and godmother with the fruit that it (you) produces... Your fruit is prayer bro.... God Bless, Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 A baby knows what they are taught. Baptism is a cleanzing of the soul from original sin.... it replaces circumcision. If the child is raise to believe, that child will believe and have faith. That child is a Christian because all that child knows is Christianity. Many have asked me "Are you saved, when?" - I've always believed... was raised to believe... was baptised early... I've always been Christian... I knew nothing else.... So how can anyone ask when I was saved... This is why many Catholics are not sure how to answer non-Catholics when they ask this question... Christianity is all we knew from birth.... to say that a child must believe to be saved is condemning the child before they say "I accept". Some say that they are an exception, but no where in the bible does it lead one to believe that when looking at the bible from a non-Catholic point of view. Don't get me wrong, your parents and godmothers faith is important, but there lack of it (per say) does not reflect less on you. God is merciful and loving. Everything is in God's plan. He calls us all at different times. Your faith and prayer can help your parents and godmother. .... God Bless, Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk As far as your parents and godmother are concerned; it's not their faith that makes you Christian, it's your baptism and if you believe you are living the way God intended... the way I was raised made me think that I was living the way that God intended. I went to church, received the sacraments, and was the proverbial "good person." Yet I was disobedient to God in just about every aspect of my life. I was told I was living right, I thought I was living right, but I was wrong. There could have been deadly consequences because of my life style, and I have seen the consequences of others who also thought they were living the right way and really weren't. as you grew up and are growing up, the more you learn, the more will be expected of you as a Christian... We must learn about the teachings of Christ and know our faith; but we cannot possibly expect to know it all at once... if we do some bad things out of ignorance, it will not be as bad as if we knew the law of God and broke it. but I've been chastised here over and over again for not learning what the Church teaches, myself, on my own. I was living a life of ignorance, and there's no way I could have escaped it myself, but thankfully God got ahold of me and showed me the light, so to speak. that's what the Great Commission is for....to spread the Gospel and allow people to recognize their ignorance, and sinfulness, and show them how to turn away from it and toward God. Your parents and godmother planted the seed and it appears to be growing... the tree of that seed (you) could nurish your parents and godmother with the fruit that it (you) produces... Your fruit is prayer bro Amen, this is my prayer for all of my friends and family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Ironmonk I have to compliment you on your attitude, you're showing much love. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 You can be a christian and not even realize it. In the lowest sense a Christian is someone who "does unto others as they'd have them do unto them". In the most divine sense of that phrase I agree with Mother Teresa: I would add "gives with a charitable and honest heart" just to be clear. Other aspects of christianity fall only secondary. No. I know many fine atheists and pagans who ""does unto others as they'd have them do unto them". THey are emphatically not christians. Doing good does not make you a christian. " think what Jesus meant by God is at the least believing in something greater than yourself" No. Jesus meant specifically the God found in Genesis, the God who created the universe and time itself, the God who happened to be His father thru generation and ours thru Baptism and adoption. The God who sent His Son to suffer, die and redeem the world. This is not simply "brelieving in something greater thasn yourself" Jesus was either a liar, a lunatic or God Almighty come to save us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 the way I was raised made me think that I was living the way that God intended. I went to church, received the sacraments, and was the proverbial "good person." Yet I was disobedient to God in just about every aspect of my life. I was told I was living right, I thought I was living right, but I was wrong. There could have been deadly consequences because of my life style, and I have seen the consequences of others who also thought they were living the right way and really weren't. But Mulls, it wasn't "wrong" to recieve the sacraments, or to go to church. If you were "disobedient to God in just about every aspect of [your] life", is the Church to blame? I don't get it. The way you worded this makes it sound like Catholicism told you that your sins were okay. That isn't the case at all. I just don't understand why so many people fall away from the Church because, "I didn't know Christ while I was in the Church". Like the Church was to blame. If you don't know Christ, there is a problem with YOU. I could never understand why they couldn't stop sinning and get to know Christ IN the Church... But then again, God's ways are not my own. He will lead you back to His Church, in this life, or the next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 But Mulls, it wasn't "wrong" to recieve the sacraments, or to go to church. If you were "disobedient to God in just about every aspect of [your] life", is the Church to blame? I don't get it. The way you worded this makes it sound like Catholicism told you that your sins were okay. That isn't the case at all. I just don't understand why so many people fall away from the Church because, "I didn't know Christ while I was in the Church". Like the Church was to blame. If you don't know Christ, there is a problem with YOU. I could never understand why they couldn't stop sinning and get to know Christ IN the Church... But then again, God's ways are not my own. He will lead you back to His Church, in this life, or the next... Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Many have asked me "Are you saved, when?" - I've always believed... was raised to believe... was baptised early... I've always been Christian... I knew nothing else.... So how can anyone ask when I was saved... This is why many Catholics are not sure how to answer non-Catholics when they ask this question... Christianity is all we knew from birth.... to say that a child must believe to be saved is condemning the child before they say "I accept". Some say that they are an exception, but no where in the bible does it lead one to believe that when looking at the bible from a non-Catholic point of view. In my experience in dealing with non-Catholics, it seems to stem from the fact that many denominations see salvation as a "once-in-a-lifetime" event, whereas we Catholics see it as an ongoing process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 But Mulls, it wasn't "wrong" to recieve the sacraments, or to go to church. If you were "disobedient to God in just about every aspect of [your] life", is the Church to blame? I don't get it. The way you worded this makes it sound like Catholicism told you that your sins were okay. That isn't the case at all. I just don't understand why so many people fall away from the Church because, "I didn't know Christ while I was in the Church". Like the Church was to blame. If you don't know Christ, there is a problem with YOU. I could never understand why they couldn't stop sinning and get to know Christ IN the Church... But then again, God's ways are not my own. He will lead you back to His Church, in this life, or the next... Word also. It's one thing if a person was not taught properly, it's another if they know what is right and wrong but decide the "glamor of evil" is more attractive than God and would rather enjoy sinful fun. In the latter case it is really unfair (as well as slanderous) to blame the Church. Case in point: 20 years ago someone who went to the same Catholic grade school as me told me about how he got involved in drugs, etc. but that Jesus saved him, but he never heard about Jesus and stuff talked about at the school. I thought to myself "Well, maybe if you had listened instead of doing drugs you would have heard it, because I heard it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 (edited) But Mulls, it wasn't "wrong" to recieve the sacraments, or to go to church. did i say it was? no. If you were "disobedient to God in just about every aspect of [your] life", is the Church to blame? I don't get it. i was responding to this quote by ironmonk, my emphasis added: "As far as your parents and godmother are concerned; it's not their faith that makes you Christian, it's your baptism and if you believe you are living the way God intended... " it didn't matter what I believed. I was wrong. get it now? I just don't understand why so many people fall away from the Church because, "I didn't know Christ while I was in the Church". Like the Church was to blame. If you don't know Christ, there is a problem with YOU. I could never understand why they couldn't stop sinning and get to know Christ IN the Church... see, this is why i said the following: but I've been chastised here over and over again for not learning what the Church teaches, myself, on my own. I was living a life of ignorance, and there's no way I could have escaped it myself, but thankfully God got ahold of me and showed me the light, so to speak. maybe you missed that part? and make you sure you notice what i was responding to so you don't take it out of context, again. and why are you taking my experiences so personally? Edited March 2, 2004 by mulls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 i didn't blame the Church once. i'm over it. i'm in Christ now. time to live my life. WORD to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 (edited) double post c.r.e.a.m. Edited March 2, 2004 by mulls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 and why are you taking my experiences so personally? Because you were once a part of the Catholic Church, and you left it. It hurts because so many people leave. I don't know why it's so personal. I like you. You're family. I'm frustrated that you don't see the beauty of what you once had and left. All in God's time. Sorry for venting. Didn't mean to slam you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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