Efficacy Of Prayers

[picchick]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1590795' date='Jul 4 2008, 12:35 AM']Sorry to be a bummer but i don't know if Jesus loves us all equally. He did have a favorite disciple whom he loved the most. I think its easier for us to believe he loves us all equally but I don't think I believe it. I've seen some people do amazing things with prayer. And others who have asked them to pray for them because they didn't feel like their prayers were as effective.

I think he loves us all

But if he has favorites, I'm not gonna get ticked.[/quote]

God's love is unconditional. He hears all prayers and answers all prayers. Sometimes it is not the answer that we expect. However, it is an answer nonetheless. If God's love is unconditional then there are not conditions to it. Conditions can be thought of as rules or restraints. Favoritism is something that puts a label or restraint in a way on love. It "favors" love towards someone rather than another. God cannot love someone more than the the other.

You make a good point about the disciple whom he loved. I notice that I see that phrase in John's gospel...I wonder if John is somewhat a jokester. I mean it made a point to say that Peter was old in the resurrection passage. Maybe he wanted to rub to tease the disciples in some way. However, regardless of the context of John's gospel, I cannot believe that God plays favorites. This is a human characteristic which I cannot believe God would have.

Meg

[Apotheoun]

Just as God pours out His glory equally upon all of mankind, and yet the saints will have varying degrees of glory in the eschaton; so too, the efficaciousness of prayers varies based upon the disposition of the one who is praying.

[Lounge Daddy]

I said no, it's not the same. There is a reason that intercessory prayer to someone like The Blessed Mother is more desirable than Joe Shmo.

Efficaciousness isn't equal, and I don't think it's all that complicated.

[picchick]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1591457' date='Jul 4 2008, 05:36 PM']I said no, it's not the same. There is a reason that intercessory prayer to someone like The Blessed Mother is more desirable than Joe Shmo.

Efficaciousness isn't equal, and I don't think it's all that complicated.[/quote]

True, but I believe that Mary is an exception to this rule. She has a very special place in God's plan for human kind. I thought Lil Red was comparing you vs. me sorta thing.

In the case of you vs. me I would have to say there is equal playing ground because God does not play favorites and hears all prayers and answers all prayers. Only some you do not get the answer you want.
Meg

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='picchick' post='1591493' date='Jul 4 2008, 06:17 PM']True, but I believe that Mary is an exception to this rule. She has a very special place in God's plan for human kind. I thought Lil Red was comparing you vs. me sorta thing.

In the case of you vs. me I would have to say there is equal playing ground because God does not play favorites and hears all prayers and answers all prayers. Only some you do not get the answer you want.
Meg[/quote]
Oh, but I don't think that's the exception. There are many saints and blesseds that were known, and are still known, for prayers answered to a miraculous degree. A great example is Solanus Casey.

True, God doesn't play "favorites." But we have the freedom to have greater or lesser proper disposition of heart. We have free will, and God respects that—even in the efficacy of our prayer and His responsiveness to our petitions.

["Kyrie eleison"]

My family and I have been praying the rosary for my brother in law's sister who slipped into a coma a couple of days ago. In my praying, I pray with all my might to the depth of my soul, with all the faith I have, in hope that my prayer will be heard, if it is the Lords' will. I don't know if any of you have ever felt this when you pray in this manner. I felt a surge of energy leave my body a couple of times.

[picchick]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1591613' date='Jul 4 2008, 09:06 PM']Oh, but I don't think that's the exception. There are many saints and blesseds that were known, and are still known, for prayers answered to a miraculous degree. A great example is Solanus Casey.

True, God doesn't play "favorites." But we have the freedom to have greater or lesser proper disposition of heart. We have free will, and God respects that—even in the efficacy of our prayer and His responsiveness to our petitions.[/quote]


I think we are talking about two different things. I am referring specifically to favortism. I don't think that God will choose to answer one person's prayer more than another because He likes them more.

I agree with the disposition of the heart. I remember St. Terese of Lis. talking to her older sister about those in heaven. The sister put forth a thimble and a big glass and then asked, "Which is the fullest?" Each were equally full. One was only smaller than the other. This can sorta be applied to this. Those who are in the state of grace have their prayers heard. Just some people because of the "bigger" disposition in their hearts have their prayers answered to the miraculous degree.

Is this a little clearer? It is kinda hard for me to explain, in a way.

Meg

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='picchick' post='1592264' date='Jul 5 2008, 05:15 PM']I think we are talking about two different things. I am referring specifically to favortism. I don't think that God will choose to answer one person's prayer more than another because He likes them more.

I agree with the disposition of the heart. I remember St. Terese of Lis. talking to her older sister about those in heaven. The sister put forth a thimble and a big glass and then asked, "Which is the fullest?" Each were equally full. One was only smaller than the other. This can sorta be applied to this. Those who are in the state of grace have their prayers heard. Just some people because of the "bigger" disposition in their hearts have their prayers answered to the miraculous degree.

Is this a little clearer? It is kinda hard for me to explain, in a way.

Meg[/quote]

Yes.

[Resurrexi]

Well, the Catechism of the Council of Trent has this to say:

[quote]THE HIGHEST DEGREE OF PRAYER: THE PRAYER OF THE JUST

What, then, is the best manner and the most exalted degree of prayer? It is that which is made use of by the pious and the just. Resting on the solid foundation of the true faith, they rise successively from one degree of prayer and virtue to another, until, at length, they reach that height of perfection, whence they can contemplate the infinite power, goodness, and wisdom of God; where, too, they are animated with the assured hope of obtaining not only those blessings which they desire in this life, but also those unutterable rewards which God has pledged Himself to grant to him who piously and religiously implores His assistance.

Soaring, as it were, to heaven, on these two wings, the soul approaches, in fervent desire, the Divinity; adores with supreme praise and thanksgiving Him from whom she has received such inestimable blessings; and, like an only child, animated with singular piety and profound veneration, trustfully tells her most beloved Father all her wants.

This sort of prayer the Sacred Scriptures express by the words pouring out. In his sight, says the Prophet, I pour out my prayer, but before him I declare my trouble.24 This means that he who comes to pray should conceal or omit nothing, but pour out all, flying with confidence into the bosom of God, his most loving Father. To this the Sacred Scriptures exhort us in these words: Pour out thy heart before him,25 cast thy care upon the Lord.26 This is that degree of prayer to which St. Augustine alludes when he says in that book, entitled Enchiridion: What faith believes, that hope and charity implore.27

THE SECOND DEGREE OF PRAYER: THE PRAYER OF SINNERS

Another degree of prayer is that of those who are weighed down by the guilt of mortal sin, but who strive, with what is called dead faith, to raise themselves from their condition and to ascend to God. But, in consequence of their languid state and the extreme weakness of their faith, they cannot raise themselves from the earth. Recognizing their crimes and stung with remorse of conscience, they bow themselves down with humility, and, far as they are removed from God, implore of Him with penitential sorrow, the pardon of their sins and the peace of reconciliation.

The prayers of such persons are not rejected by God, but are heard by Him. Nay, in His mercy, He generously invites such as these to have recourse to Him, saying: Come to me, all you that labour, and are heavily laden, and I will refresh you.28 Of this class was the publican, who, though he did not dare to raise his eyes towards heaven, left the Temple, as (our Lord) declares, more justified than the Pharisee.29

THE THIRD DEGREE OF PRAYER: THE PRAYER OF UNBELIEVERS

A third degree of prayer is that which is offered by those who have not as yet been illumined with the light of faith; but who, when the divine goodness illumines in their souls the feeble natural light, are strongly moved to the desire and pursuit of truth and most earnestly pray for a knowledge of it.

If they persevere in such dispositions, God, in His mercy, will not neglect their earnest endeavors, as we see verified by the example of Cornelius the centurion.30 The doors of the divine mercy are closed against none who sincerely ask for mercy.

THE LOWEST DEGREE OF PRAYER: THE PRAYER OF THE IMPENITENT

The last degree is that of those who not only do not repent of their sins and enormities, but, adding crime to crime, dare frequently to ask pardon of God for those sins, in which they are resolved to continue. With such dispositions they would not presume to ask pardon from their fellow-man.

The prayer of such sinners is not heard by God. It is recorded of Antiochus: Then this wicked man prayed to the Lord, of whom he was not to obtain mercy.31 Whoever lives in this deplorable condition should be vehemently exhorted to wean himself from all affection to sin, and to return to God in good earnest and from the heart.*[/quote]

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1616798' date='Aug 3 2008, 11:50 PM']Well, the Catechism of the Council of Trent has this to say:

THE HIGHEST DEGREE OF PRAYER: THE PRAYER OF THE JUST

they rise successively from one degree of prayer and virtue to another, until, at length, they reach that height of perfection, whence they can contemplate the infinite power, goodness, and wisdom of God;[/quote]


dude i want some of that! religious life here i come!

=========

i heard that the holiness of a priest affects the holiness of the people during Mass..

[Kitty]

No, I do not believe all prayers have the same efficacy. I don't really think God cares for everyone equally, either.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1616817' date='Aug 4 2008, 01:15 AM']i heard that the holiness of a priest affects the holiness of the people during Mass..[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
isn't that a heresy? i'm not being sarcastic, but i could have sworn that i've heard of that being a heresy. i know that how the Mass is said (illicit parts vs. a well said Mass) does affect the graces the people receive, though.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1616820' date='Aug 4 2008, 01:30 AM']I don't really think God cares for everyone equally, either.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
could you explain what you mean by this? thanks.