Efficacy Of Prayers

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
discuss.

[TeresaBenedicta]

Hmm. Interesting debate. I'm not fully convinced one way or another, nor have I thought about it enough to come up with a complete idea: which is why I have voted "it's complicated".

So, just thinking out loud here...

For a prayer to be answered in the positive, whatever being asked must be in line with God's will. Every prayer is answered, but sometimes that answer is "no". It all comes down to whether or not the petition is what God wills.

That having been said, I think that the closer a soul is to God, the increased likely hood of that soul's will being aligned with God's. So when somebody is very closely united to God and they pray for something, it is more likely that that prayer will be answered in the way in which they asked.

Therefore I'd say there's kind of degrees... I'm thinking, like, the Blessed Mother and all of the Saints in Heaven right on top. And then the really holy people, etc, etc, all the way down.

The closer you align your own will with God', the more likely you are to ask what is within His will, and the more likely that your prayer will be answered in the way that you asked.

But really, every prayer is heard and answered equally. The important thing is that the prayer is being made. Sometimes we don't know what's best for us; but we're praying. God answers either way, always with what He knows to be best. Sometimes that's in line with our desires... sometimes it's not.

Sooooo. Yeah. I'd say "It's Complicated".

[picchick]

I think it depends on how the prayer is said and the heart of the person saying it.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1590352' date='Jul 3 2008, 04:28 PM']+J.M.J.+
discuss.[/quote]


No


say please

[HisChildForever]

I said "It's Complicated."

Jesus loves us all equally, and, for example, I don't think He favors the prayers of the Pope over the prayers of a college student, although to us we may say that it would be logical for Him [i]to[/i] favor. I mean, the Pope may be praying for guidance on how to guide the entire Church, while the college student is praying for a good night's sleep for that biology exam in the morning. We can easily say that the Pope's prayer is more important, but God knows that the college student needs a good grade and since it's so important to the college student, it's important to God as well.

[Fr. Antony Maria OSB]

This is a really interesting topic to discuss. If I repeat anything that has already been said, I apologize: I wanted to write my own thoughts and if I read something on a topic and then write about it I tend to not always say what I intended to before.

With that said, I voted that I wasn't sure, because there are many different ways in which prayer can have an effect on the lives of a person or persons, even if its not the effect the person praying was looking for. So first of all, in order for the prayer to have the effect that the person praying wants it to have, it would have to be in accordance with God's Will (not going against who God is, breaking the Commandments, etc.), so if this prayer does go against God's Will I highly doubt that it would have the effect the person praying wanted it to have. On the other hand, this same prayer could be the topic of discussion or reflection on the part of the person, and could bring about a conversion or a better understanding of the topic of the prayer, thereby bringing them closer to God: back to the whole "God works in such straight ways that they're crooked" mentality.

Taken to the opposite extreme, where the topic of the prayer is in accordance with God's Will, the person praying is very close to God, is humble, contrite, pure of heart, let's say a saint on earth, even then could one say that their prayer would have a better efficacy than others? I don't really know. Viewing God as a Loving Father, a loving father would most likely take into account the requests, thoughts, or musings of one of his better behaved children than of a more wild and rambunctious one who does not follow the rules, etc. but that doesn't mean that he will necessarially do what the first child wants or act on the request, thought, or musing in a way that is any different from the other child. In all actuality, wouldn't the loving father act on the actions/words of his children the same for any one of them? I'm not saying that he would do the same for each one, but depending on each child's maturity, age, knowledge, morals, and many other factors wouldn't the loving father always do what is best for his children? For example, for the child who is overall very good, doesn't get in trouble, etc sending them away to a highly disciplined school may not be the best choice, but for a child who is out of control this same decision may be for the best. In all that any person does, God is going to want the best for them, so if they ask Him for help, He's going to give it to them in some way: it may be that minute, the next day, month, year, or never, but depending on the circumstances I think God would answer the prayers as He sees fit, regardless of the persons moral standings.

As I've been trying to explain this, it seems to me to be much more complex than I had thought before, because each person is going to have a different relationship with God, whichever level of the soul they are in (St. Theresa of Avila). There are tons of different aspects that are necessary and helpful for a prayer life (humility, purity of heart, internal silence, prudence, knowledge, compunction, a desire for God, the list goes on and on), so for each person, depending on their relationship with God and what virtues they have, their prayer life is gonig to be different, but this doesn't necessarially mean it will have more of an effect than any other. At the same time, though, having many of the virtues I listed above could help in seeing God's responce to a prayer, whatever it may be. Which actually brings up another point that God answers every prayer, but that doesn't mean that each person sees the effect every prayer of theirs has. Taking for example the intercessions we pray at Mass: how will we know if our parish praying for vocations has more of an effect of producing vocations than the parish in the next town? We can't really know that, because we don't know the mind of God.

This is such a complex question, "Does every prayer have the same efficaciousness as any other prayer?" that I guess I would really have to keep my vote at I don't know or change it to It's complex, because like I said before being closer to God than the next guy doesn't mean that your prayer will have any more effect than the worst sinner in the world. Prayer is such a personal communion with God that I don't know that we can even really compare the prayer lives of anyone, whomever they may be. We can research them through readng spiritual books and actively pursue to strengthen our own prayer lives to get closer to God, but even then we can never really know, except by Divine revelation, the comparison of different persons' prayers. We could even reverse what I said earlier comparing the saint among us to the hardened sinner: Christ said that He did not come to minister to the healthy, but the sick, so it could also be argued that the prayer of a hardened sinner would have more efficacy than the saint among us, just because the hardened sinner may not pray as much or always mean what he prays, so praying a truly heart-felt prayer, it could be argued, could have more effect than the most saintly of humans most heart-felt prayer, because wouldn't the loving father want to help the child who needs his help the most, not because he loves that child any more than any of his other children, but because when his child does come to him for help the window of opportunity for helping that child could be very small? Thankfully God is all powerful, so He is able to minister to the needs of everyone all the time, but just thinking about all of this is enough to make one realize just how little we know and just how small and powerless we are in comparison with God.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1590725' date='Jul 3 2008, 09:11 PM']No
say please[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
please.

[KnightofChrist]

I voted no, a person in the state of grace has more efficacy, than a person not in a state of grace.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1590759' date='Jul 3 2008, 11:58 PM']+J.M.J.+
please. [/quote]

How could I say no to that face?



[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1590737' date='Jul 3 2008, 11:29 PM']I said "It's Complicated."

Jesus loves us all equally, and, for example, I don't think He favors the prayers of the Pope over the prayers of a college student, although to us we may say that it would be logical for Him [i]to[/i] favor. I mean, the Pope may be praying for guidance on how to guide the entire Church, while the college student is praying for a good night's sleep for that biology exam in the morning. We can easily say that the Pope's prayer is more important, but God knows that the college student needs a good grade and since it's so important to the college student, it's important to God as well.[/quote]


Sorry to be a bummer but i don't know if Jesus loves us all equally. He did have a favorite disciple whom he loved the most. I think its easier for us to believe he loves us all equally but I don't think I believe it. I've seen some people do amazing things with prayer. And others who have asked them to pray for them because they didn't feel like their prayers were as effective.

I think he loves us all

But if he has favorites, I'm not gonna get ticked.

[Greyhawk]

[quote]The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful. (James 5:16)[/quote]

I voted no because the verse seems to imply a righteous person has more prayer power.

However, I think our prayer [i]potential[/i] is equal:
[quote]Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father. And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. (John 14:12-14)[/quote]

Edited July 4, 2008 by Greyhawk

[Mercy me]

Prayer is always good if only because it brings us closer to God. However, if by efficacious you mean getting what is being asked for, you have to remember that sometimes the answer to our prayers is no.

[CatherineM]

God is a very good parent, and anyone with kids will tell you that you may treat your children with equal love, but you can't treat them all the same all the time. There are times when one needs more of your time or money than one of the other kids. Plus, I agree with the above that sometimes, again like a good parent, he has to say no.

[MIKolbe]

If the prayer of the righteous avails much, what about the prayer of the unrighteous?

[Deb]

I voted no. I think all prayer said earnestly is equal. I do think that the Lord can judge what is in our heart when we are praying and if we are just reciting words with no love or heart behind them, they aren't very effective.

Sometimes prayer does not come easily but, if the heart is behind it, the Lord knows that. Sometimes it just flows out like a river filled with Love and thankfulness and I think the Lord knows that too.

Just my thought.

[Greyhawk]

[quote name='MIkolbe' post='1591170' date='Jul 4 2008, 10:58 AM']If the prayer of the righteous avails much, what about the prayer of the unrighteous?[/quote]
I'll let God decide that. I mean, I don't think God ignores the unrighteous if they pray, I think it's a matter of "prayer power" of righteous vs. unrighteous. It's interesting that following that verse I quoted earlier James recalls the story of Elijah praying for it not to rain...