How Does One Accomplish Loving One's Self

[Alycin]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1589695' date='Jul 2 2008, 10:46 PM']As usual, secular pop psychology has this backwards. One does not love others by first loving oneself, but true love of oneself comes through loving service to others.[/quote]

Her professor at an orthodox catholic college told her that, not "secular pop psychology."

ETA:

For the record: I have never struggled with loving others or serving others. It didn't really help me in the long run to love myself. Serving others, even in Christian charity, is an action. It doesn't take self-love to do the actions and doing the actions doesn't guarantee self love. I know from experience. Knowing that one's actions are good and beneficial to another isn't the same as learning to love oneself or view oneself through God's eyes. (The latter is probably not fully possible, but I think it can help to try.)

In my own experience, there aren't enough good deeds in the world that will make one end up loving oneself, and can even backfire when you try and try and try to make yourself into a "good person" through good deeds so that you are lovable. It just doesn't work that way. Crystalina Evert once talked about letting God love you in your ugliness. I think it's the same way. We have to love ourselves now, just as we are, struggles, sins, and all, just like God loves us. We don't have to be perfect for God to love us, and so we have to let go of the notion that we will love each other... someday, when we're "better". The "better" is unattainable.

Something that one of my (Christian) counselors once asked me was, "Do other people's mistakes make you see them as lesser or as worthless?" Obviously, my answer was no.

The commandments "Love God above all" and "love thy neighbor as thyself" comes to mind. A lot of people have interpreted that as meaning "God first, others second, myself last." I don't know if that's correct. I think "love thy neighbor as thyself" actually means just that. Love your neighbor exactly like you love yourself. You're not better and you're not worse than the next guy.

I could be off though. Just thinking out loud, for the most part.

Edited July 3, 2008 by Alycin

[Deus te Amat]

[quote name='XIX' post='1589469' date='Jul 2 2008, 06:16 PM']Tgoldson, I understand where you are coming from, but if a person is dealing with self-esteem issues to begin with, I don't think it will really help matters by telling her she's been slapping God in the face.[/quote]


It worked for me.

[lilac_angel]

It's true; if one hates oneself, s/he is not capable of loving others in any godly way. Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself. If a person doesn't care one iota about themself or his own soul, why would he care about his neighbor?

There is a point where self-hatred can easily turn into a form of self-absorption and egotism. Moderation in all things, it seems. We should not neglect ourselves; we should not place ourselves above others.

It is apparent that you are not anywhere near becoming an egomaniac and rightly wanting to know how to love yourself because you're a temple of God - even if currently a wounded, confused one - and that is a very good thing; you are humbly trying to heal from a situation in the past, and I'm willing to bet God is 100% with you on that.

I agree with an above poster about gratefulness being very important ingredient in the process. It aids in humility -- a healthy humility -- not a humility that is overly self-degrading or self-mutilating to the point of absurdity, but a humility that allows oneself to stand in the awe of God, bask in His healing love, and then have the ability to transmit that Godly love to others.

Edited July 3, 2008 by lilac_angel

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1589791' date='Jul 3 2008, 12:39 AM']As usual Soc posts without actual thinking or expertise.

Love does not start outside it starts within. Anybody telling you anything else is fooling themselves and most likely is masking their self loathing in outward ways.

Where psychology is correct is this. In 98% of people who don't like themselves it is because they don't know themselves at all. (Everyone reading this with no self esteem just had a violent reaction to that.) 2% would be due to a chemical imbalance.

You want to be happy with yourself? Spend time with yourself. Turn off the ipod, turn off the computer. walk away from the tv and spend time by yourself. Start off with 10 minutes every day just you and your thoughts. then when the 10 minutes are up, write down something you did that day that was good. Something you succeeded at.

No one who truly knows themself hates themself. As hard as that is to accept, it is absolutely true.[/quote]

What happens when you dislike yourself even more when you "turn off the ipod, turn off the computer, walk away from the tv, and spend time by yourself"? idk... i've struggled with some similar problems and usually the "better" i know myself the harder it is to live with myself. I hold myself to impossible standards and am extremely scrupulous. I had a counsellor in high school who had me write good things about myself... it was really hard, and i didn't really believe the things i was writing. i don't really know.

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1589803' date='Jul 3 2008, 12:03 AM']I think "love thy neighbor as thyself" actually means just that. Love your neighbor exactly like you love yourself. You're not better and you're not worse than the next guy.[/quote]

That's always what I've been taught in my many years of Catholic education.

Good points, Alycin. I know from experience and from others' experiences that all the giving in the world while having a damaged/hateful view of oneself can still leave the individual feeling like something important is missing. i.e. they're giving to their neighbors, but they're ignoring the second part of the command. And they eventually hit a breaking point, in my experience, and sink into despair.

Edited July 3, 2008 by lilac_angel

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='lilac_angel' post='1589811' date='Jul 3 2008, 01:23 AM']That's always what I've been taught in my many years of Catholic education.

Good points, Alycin. I know from experience and from others' experiences that all the giving in the world while having a damaged/hateful view of oneself can still leave the individual feeling like something important is missing. i.e. they're giving to their neighbors, but they're ignoring the second part of the command. And they eventually hit a breaking point, in my experience, and sink into despair.[/quote]

I definitely agree.

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1589809' date='Jul 3 2008, 12:17 AM']What happens when you dislike yourself even more when you "turn off the ipod, turn off the computer, walk away from the tv, and spend time by yourself"? idk... i've struggled with some similar problems and usually the "better" i know myself the harder it is to live with myself. I hold myself to impossible standards and am extremely scrupulous. I had a counsellor in high school who had me write good things about myself... it was really hard, and i didn't really believe the things i was writing. i don't really know.[/quote]

You did acknowledge part (or most) of your problem - the impossible standards and extreme scrupulosity. We need God's grace, not ours, to overcome our weaknesses, and if we focus too much on our weaknesses, they drag us down and potentially magnify them, letting the devil get the upper hand. Sometimes we just have to completely hand over to God all the problems we have with ourselves and not dwell on them because it's futile and counterproductive. Instead of dwelling on them, contemplate Christ's wounds or Divine Mercy, cultivate a new, interesting devotion, delve deeper into the faith or simply pick out a Gospel passage/verse and focus on its particular meaning. The broad scope of God's message and his perfect radiating love that is perpetually self-giving and merciful should be the focus, and when it is, it follows that we can imitate Christ in the way He intended us to. When the large burden of self-reliance is placed on our own shoulders, it becomes too heavy very quickly. Give it to God. Lay in bed at the end of the day, extend a hand off the side, pretending it's a big, heavy ball made up of your problems/worries, and offer it to God, prayerfully asking Him to take care of those worries... got that last one from a youth group meeting a long time ago... *shrugs* hehe

[Jaime]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1589809' date='Jul 3 2008, 01:17 AM']What happens when you dislike yourself even more when you "turn off the ipod, turn off the computer, walk away from the tv, and spend time by yourself"? idk... i've struggled with some similar problems and usually the "better" i know myself the harder it is to live with myself. I hold myself to impossible standards and am extremely scrupulous. I had a counsellor in high school who had me write good things about myself... it was really hard, and i didn't really believe the things i was writing. i don't really know.[/quote]

Its not a magic trick Aalpha. Its a slow journey. Yes its really hard but so many things in life are. Sometimes you start with small steps. But you make the commitment every day and you see the changes over months. The scrupulousness will go away and the daily successes become more tangible. Its the process that is important not necessarily the immediate results.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='lilac_angel' post='1589817' date='Jul 3 2008, 01:42 AM']You did acknowledge part (or most) of your problem - the impossible standards and extreme scrupulosity. We need God's grace, not ours, to overcome our weaknesses, and if we focus too much on our weaknesses, they drag us down and potentially magnify them, letting the devil get the upper hand. Sometimes we just have to completely hand over to God all the problems we have with ourselves and not dwell on them because it's futile and counterproductive. Instead of dwelling on them, contemplate Christ's wounds or Divine Mercy, cultivate a new, interesting devotion, delve deeper into the faith or simply pick out a Gospel passage/verse and focus on its particular meaning. The broad scope of God's message and his perfect radiating love that is perpetually self-giving and merciful should be the focus, and when it is, it follows that we can imitate Christ in the way He intended us to. When the large burden of self-reliance is placed on our own shoulders, it becomes too heavy very quickly. Give it to God. Lay in bed at the end of the day, extend a hand off the side, pretending it's a big, heavy ball made up of your problems/worries, and offer it to God, prayerfully asking Him to take care of those worries... got that last one from a youth group meeting a long time ago... *shrugs* hehe[/quote]

Thank you, your post helped some... I think i'll remember that. I felt warm inside when I read it.


[quote name='hot stuff' post='1589818' date='Jul 3 2008, 01:44 AM']Its not a magic trick Aalpha. Its a slow journey. Yes its really hard but so many things in life are. Sometimes you start with small steps. But you make the commitment every day and you see the changes over months. The scrupulousness will go away and the daily successes become more tangible. Its the process that is important not necessarily the immediate results.[/quote]

I know, I'm really bad at waiting. . One of my character flaws is impatience.

[son_of_angels]

There are a lot of hurting young people out there and, despite my own young age, I've tried to help some of them the best I can. Here are a list of my goals when I talk to hurting girls (most of whom have a deeply rooted lack of self-love), followed by some little reflections.

1. There is no one in this world that can do anything to help you love yourself. If someone starts "making you feel loved" through sex, drugs, whatever, you ought to know immediately that a real-to-life relationship is not possible. You have to mature before that relationship can take place.

2. There is nothing in this world that can help you love yourself: not make-up, not alcohol, nothing, period.

3. God loves you most when you're hurting the most, and always enjoys it when you are truly happy.


Some things I like to think about: (1) You have no higher duty in this world than to have a clean conscience. This is part of what St. James says in his Epistle, "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and teh Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world."
That clean conscience is part of what we mean when we say that one should "love themself." One should habitually affirm this by refusing to accept any action which is contrary to the interests of that conscience, regardless of one's attachments, friends, etc. Loving God and loving oneself ARE related.
(2) You should not be afraid to think. (After all, you are all quite well designed to do it) Unfortunately, the only way for this to be the case is to practice doing it often enough until it becomes habit. That means that you look at something, you consider whether or not it's true, beautiful, orderly, reasonable, whatever, and you make a judgment that is thoroughly convincing. Thinking, and the art of Thinking, is the first step to acknowledging the fact that you can make good judgments. If you don't buy that, you simply do not love yourself. O yes, and stay away from anyone who doesn't give you space to think. Spend some time alone with a good book. (I suggest any of Pope Benedict's books or Plato).
(3) You should cultivate other-worldly peace. God gave you that peace. What are you doing to preserve it? Are you spending some time in non-consumerist leisure (I like the idea of rock gardening myself..)? Are you refusing to go shopping just to get your mind off of work? YOU SHOULD. Also, get a puppy.
(4) Loving yourself is in fact cultivated by loving others. However, this only works if you are doing it selflessly. (Sounds like a contradiction, I know) If I might draw an idea from Mahayana Buddhism, the boddhisatva chooses freely not to enter into nirvana (freedom from existence) in order to help everyone else achieve the same. Think about your life the same way. You are choosing to refrain from death, in God's grace, of course, in order to help everyone follow you to salvation and to become even more perfect in gratitude for God's favor.
This kind of love obviously DOES NOT APPLY to boyfriends, girlfriends, random hook-ups, or any other destructive relationship (employers, etc.).


There's my thoughts.

[son_of_angels]

I guess I should have followed the bit about scrupulosity. However, scrupulosity works a bit the same way. You should practice thinking rationally and become convinced that as long as you are doing nothing obstructive, God is doing everything.

I suggest "Searching for and Maintaining Peace" I forget the author, but it's really good.

[add]

How Does One Accomplish Loving One's Self?
-By become altruistic in a righteous way-

[XIX]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1589754' date='Jul 3 2008, 12:36 AM']It worked for my friend... I didn't think it would hurt. Sorry if it did.[/quote]
[quote]It worked for me.[/quote]

Well then i stand corrected.

[Fr. Bruno]

[quote name='missionseeker' post='1588872' date='Jul 2 2008, 08:04 AM']i never have. dont know how. need help.[/quote]


When Jesus tells us to love our neighbours as ourselves, I think he just assumes that loving ourselves is natural : of course, because we are God's children.
So when somebody has a difficulty with this, I think the first question is to ask : where is the difficulty ? Why can't you love yourself ? What's the root of the bad plant ?

Because you're not what you'd like to be like ? In that case, it might be some hidden pride...
so, seek humility.

Or because of wounds from the past, a bad image of yourself other people gave you ?
In that case, I think you need competent people to talk with, starting with the Lord himself.
There might be other roots... the first step is to find the cause of the problem.

In any case, we should always remember to turn to the Lord :
[i]Those who look to him are radiant, and their faces shall never be ashamed.[/i] (Ps 34,6)

[Fr. Bruno]

[quote name='missionseeker' post='1588872' date='Jul 2 2008, 08:04 AM']i never have. dont know how. need help.[/quote]


When Jesus tells us to love our neighbours as ourselves, I think he just assumes that loving ourselves is natural : of course, because we are God's children.
So when somebody has a difficulty with this, I think the first question is to ask : where is the difficulty ? Why can't you love yourself ? What's the root of the bad plant ?

Because you're not what you'd like to be like ? In that case, it might be some hidden pride...
so, seek humility.

Or because of wounds from the past, a bad image of yourself other people gave you ?
In that case, I think you need competent people to talk with, starting with the Lord himself.
There might be other roots... the first step is to find the cause of the problem.

In any case, we should always remember to turn to the Lord :
[i]Those who look to him are radiant, and their faces shall never be ashamed.[/i] (Ps 34,6)