Cloister "vs." Active

[puellapaschalis]

From what I understand, solemn vows in religion are an impediment to marriage. I haven't heard anything about them being an impediment to simple vows.

This is of course based upon the assumption that cloistered = solemn vows and active = simple vows. I'm not sure that that's always the case, although it may well be so for the majority of orders and congregations.

[gloriagurl]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1591881' date='Jul 5 2008, 10:50 AM']From what I understand, solemn vows in religion are an impediment to marriage. I haven't heard anything about them being an impediment to simple vows.

This is of course based upon the assumption that cloistered = solemn vows and active = simple vows. I'm not sure that that's always the case, although it may well be so for the majority of orders and congregations.[/quote]


I know of one community that observes enclosure and has simple vows, but like you, peullapschalis, I believe this is the exception rather than the rule. I'm not sure why they were not given solemn vows...it would be an interesting question to ask them.

Opposite of that (so to speak).....I know Beneditne woman of more than 20 years who, with permission, is in the process of starting a new Benedictine house (not a daughter house of her original community) she has a solid orthodox background and is associated with an orthodox Catholic university.....she is also a professor at the university (she has a doctoral degree and has a licenseciate (sp?) from the Angelicum in theology) and her take is that a Benedictine (and therefore a monastic) does not need to have enclosure to have solemn vows. The nuns in this community will observe the monastic norms regarding travel and stability that are in the Holy Rule and they will pray the complete Divine Office, but they will as community needs demand, take work outside the monastary (most probably at the University)...in any case, she has been told by a Canon Lawyer that they would still be considered moniales and therefore could be granted solemn vows.

She sees (as to others) a difference between monastic and enclosed...some folks think it's all semantics...maybe, maybe not. I also was told by a Poor Clare nun at one point that they do not see themselves as "monastic" - that's Benedictine (she said) but rather as more anchoritic. Semantics? I don't know.

Now I honestly have not stayed in contact with the nun who is forming the new community but I do know that she is moving forward. I do not know how the "vow" and "enclosure" issues have been/are being resolved but the above was her plan and what she had originally been told.

In this thread I honestly believe that we are just seeking and/or offering information/clarification......but I know that for myself, somtimes jumping head first into these nuances/differences can be a drain on the spiritual life (or drive me to distraction at best). A long time ago I foolishly spent way too much time agonizing over things like solemn vs simple perpetual vows (and all the juridical differences between them) or what was "better", Papal or constitutional enclosure.....in the end the community that best fits is the one where we can "love" the best.....love God and love our neighbor like ourselves.

There's a song by Eden's bridge that really speaks to my heart, it's called Stones and Sea...here are the lyrics.
(copyrighted material Eden's Bridge)
In the beginning,
I was counting the stones on the seashore,
Looking for the precious ones.
Among the stones, I found many pretty things
While the sea rolled on beside me all the time.

Time moved on.
I had collected many stones 'til I tired of them,
And I think they tired of me.
Some were lovely, but I was never satisfied,
And the sea rolled on beside me all the time.

And the wind rose, east and cold.
Whisp'ring sweetly to my soul.
And it said "Look you fool,
You are missing precious things:
Raise your eyes and look towards the sea."

So I looked:
It was as if I saw the sea for the first time,
And it's power captured me.
All the time I had wasted seeking stones,
I had missed the rolling glory of the sea.

And the sea
Devoured a mighty swathe of heart, overwhelmed me
In a way I couldn't know,
And the price for the love of greater things
Was surrender to the great and cruel sea.

And it stole me, and I feared the aching sea,
It consumed me, drowned my mind.
The wind said "Look, you fool,
No matter what you do,
You can't contain the ocean like a stone."

[puellapaschalis]

I've been emailed off-site by a non-member who reads Phatmass. Apparently it is most definitely possible to switch from a contemplative house to an active one.

And what I implied about simple vows not being an impediment to marriage (as opposed to solemn vows) - I was talking out of my armpit. Both are impediments to marriage. Canon Law no longer distinguishes between the two.

[gloriagurl]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1592026' date='Jul 5 2008, 02:16 PM']Both are impediments to marriage. Canon Law no longer distinguishes between the two.[/quote]

Oh of course....duh(whapping myself on the forehead)....I glossed right over that.....I'd been told that some time ago as well. Thanks.

Peace

[Starets]

[quote name='EWIE' post='1589056' date='Jul 2 2008, 11:21 AM']It is important to remember that one can transfer from an active order to a cloistered one but never from a cloistered order to an active one.[/quote]

I asked my abbot about this claim at Recreation last night. He says that that was indeed the practice before the Second Vatican Council but that there was no actual Canon Law to back it up. Just a sort of "gentleman's agreement". Now, however, that "gentleman's agreement" does not hold and monks are free to transfer either way.

[EWIE]

He says that that was indeed the practice before the Second Vatican Council ......Now, however, that "gentleman's agreement" does not hold and monks are free to transfer either way.

Thanks Dunstan for updating that piece of information.
Good to know.