In My Terms Jesus Says

[the_rev]

All great sites PhatCatholic! I just took time out to look at a few! Thanks for those!

[dairygirl4u2c]

Well none of those websites have convinced me. It's too hard to tell the context of what they were written in. And searching other sites have not shown the history to ver all that compelling either.

http://members.aol.com/Puritanone/pope.htm#Intro

If you look at the subheading "Cyprian and the Unity of the Church (A.D. 251)" under the events section, you will see how the cyprian quote from catholic.com.. which would have been a compelling quote otherwise... was probably taken out of context.

I can't find where John was or what he was doing at the time when any churches consulted him. I assume someone paralled that since it's assumed John died at a certain place and time and that the bishop of Rome was consulted at that time, that someone must have just made a deduction the bishop of Rome was better without considering why or where John was.

Plus weren't all the apostles infallible according to the CC? If this is true, then consulting one or the other woudln't matter and there must be a legitimate reason for not consulting John if he were closer.

Cuz I remember reading some books back when I was Catholic that said John was in jail at the end of his life. (He was also the only apostle that wasn't martyred) So he couldn't have been consulted if when he died is even accurate to begin with.

But here is what that site said about John:

As for the fact that there is nothing from St. John (as far as we know, for, of course, he may have written many letters which have not been preserved), you might equally well say that there is no epistle from St. Peter to the seven Churches of Asia (though, of course, he too may have written letters which have been lost), or, for the matter of that, to the Corinthians of an earlier generation to whom St. Paul did write. Nor does the fact that Ignatius, as we saw, wrote to several Churches, emphasizing episcopacy, prove that he claimed as Bishop of Antioch to be Head of the Church.

This is especially important considering over time, if constantine started the CC for real, then the petrine texts would be preserved over others. But even though they are preserved, they have nothing definitive, just speculations.

Show me something that you think definitively states a decent claim for CC authority.

Edited March 3, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c

[God Conquers]

Read the Bible in context.

I mean, look at those passages we have pointed out to you. Then look at them in the context of the section they are in. Then in the chapter. Then in the book, then in the gospel, then in the testament, then in the Bible.

You will come to see that in the context of our History of Salvation, it is quite necessary for there to be an authority, that we can not hope to make it alone, and that God has positioned the CHurch to help us acheive the salvation He wants for us.