Alycin Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 [quote name='havok579257' post='1587446' date='Jun 30 2008, 08:43 PM'][size=5] If birth control or abortion were made illegal, would it really matter?[/size][/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycin Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 With all due respect havok, you are going back and forth. Everyone here thinks chastity should be taught, and abstinence practiced, and yet it was you that pointed out that people were going to do it anyway. Also, I am against the death penalty so I dunno why you're trying to use that argument against me. Thirdly, I agree that it should be available and free... it already is in many places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycin Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 [quote name='havok579257' post='1587468' date='Jun 30 2008, 09:16 PM']Or should we[b] make people[/b] realize[/quote] [quote][b]Forcing your will[/b] be it good or bad, will never work.[/quote] Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 [quote name='Lil Red' post='1587055' date='Jun 30 2008, 11:37 AM']+J.M.J.+ what do you think of this? [url="http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/test-life-shares-senator-burr-statement-national-hiv-testing-day/"]Fox News Story[/url] Should there be a National HIV testing day? Should everyone get tested for HIV/AIDS?[/quote] Manditory-- No Voluntary-- Why do we need a special day? [quote name='havok579257' post='1587104' date='Jun 30 2008, 12:23 PM']absolutly. The reason HIV is spreading so much is because people don't know they have it and are passing it on to everyone else. Obviously if everyone just waited till marriage for sex, there would be no problem, but that ain't going to happen. So informing each person if they carry the deadly disease is one step closer to contaning it. Everyone should be tested.[/quote] No one has a right to take my blood and test it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 [quote name='havok579257' post='1587357' date='Jun 30 2008, 06:11 PM']The only problem I have with what your saying is, what happens when someone gets the disease and never gets tested and doesn't know about it and infects one person who infects another and so on and so on. This is why the disease spreads so much. Abstinace is a nice idea but fact is not everyone agrees with that idea, so what then? How do you purpose we control this disease?[/quote] Then people who will sleep with people without knowing them well enough to inquire about their health status will get sick. That's the risk of being promiscuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 [quote name='havok579257' post='1587468' date='Jun 30 2008, 08:16 PM']... Actually we do legalize killing. We do it in many states. Its called the death penalty. Oh but wait, the state does that, so that must make it right even though the bible says THOU SHALL NOT KILL. This is exaclty what I mean. We know killing is wrong, the bible, God and Jesus all say so, yet killing is legal. So what should we do. Should we force everyone to make it a law so killing is illegal, thus not changing any minds at all and eventually getting that law overturned. Or should we make people realize killing is wrong and then even if killing were legalized, it wouldn't matter....[/quote] Actually, I have read in several places that a better translation of the bible in that respect would be "thou shall not kill [i]illicitly[/i]." In the sense of capital punishment, the killing could be considered a licit retributive response under certain circumstances. I am not saying I am a proponent of the death penalty, but I thought that translational issue should be addressed. There is a big ethical difference once a state (especially a democratically run state) legalizes and funds abortions, which are the killing of human fetuses. If an individual pursues abortion, it is always on their head; once a state accepts and aids in that abortion, it scandalizes all of its people in the act. Your argument is like saying we should be willing to drive our pregnant friend to the abortion clinic because she is gonna get there anyway if she wants to. We have a moral obligation NOT to drive her regardless of whether we believe our refusal to participate will have any effect on her decision to go or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 We should probably all get back to topic though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Havoc I see one glaring inconsistency in your argument. You say that everyone has free will, and forcing abstinence isn't really an option. You contend that we shouldn't force people to believe what we believe about sex. Thats fine, thats a valid opinion. If that is true, and free will is so important here, why advocate forcing people to get tested?? I don't want the government taking away my free will, my liberty, for not getting tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 More importantly, just because we honor freedom and free will doesn't mean we are required to provide all the options. I'm addressing the point you made about handing out condoms and HIV testing. People can be free, but it doesn't mean that me as a taxpayer should have to encourage their habits. Should we provide drugs for everyone? Because it is their choice and I know if the government provided the drugs it would be safer... of course not... Free choice is necessary, but we don't have to provide all options, especially ones that counter our morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 [quote name='rkwright' post='1587552' date='Jun 30 2008, 09:31 PM']More importantly, just because we honor freedom and free will doesn't mean we are required to provide all the options. I'm addressing the point you made about handing out condoms and HIV testing. People can be free, but it doesn't mean that me as a taxpayer should have to encourage their habits. Should we provide drugs for everyone? Because it is their choice and I know if the government provided the drugs it would be safer... of course not... Free choice is necessary, but we don't have to provide all options, especially ones that counter our morals.[/quote] That's the line of reasoning I was attempting in my recent post too. We have a moral obligation NOT to offer options that violate our morals because doing so is scandal and sin in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Saying it wouldn't matter and saying I support making it legal are 2 different things. Heck, saying it won't matter and saying I am not against it are 2 different things. For clarrification for you, I do not support abortion, but I do not think making it illegal will matter. Be will still abort because like I said, if someone wants to do something so bad, they will do it legal or illegal. Although this is far from me supporting abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 [quote name='Alycin' post='1587489' date='Jun 30 2008, 09:49 PM']Interesting.[/quote] Are you serious? Are you really serious? Your going to use a poor choice of words as your argument basis? So sorry, guess we're all not as perfectly literate as you. Some of us are actually human and make mistakes when typing but obviously you choose to ignore the mistake and try to use it as argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 [quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1587500' date='Jun 30 2008, 09:56 PM']Manditory-- No Voluntary-- Why do we need a special day? No one has a right to take my blood and test it.[/quote] Never said mandatory, but it should be happening. Free tests for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 [quote name='havok579257' post='1587679' date='Jun 30 2008, 10:27 PM']Saying it wouldn't matter and saying I support making it legal are 2 different things. Heck, saying it won't matter and saying I am not against it are 2 different things. For clarrification for you, I do not support abortion, but I do not think making it illegal will matter. Be will still abort because like I said, if someone wants to do something so bad, they will do it legal or illegal. Although this is far from me supporting abortion.[/quote] So you are not in favor of legal abortion, but you are stating that you don't think there is any merit in trying to make abortion illegal...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 [quote name='havok579257' post='1587679' date='Jun 30 2008, 10:27 PM']Saying it wouldn't matter and saying I support making it legal are 2 different things. Heck, saying it won't matter and saying I am not against it are 2 different things. For clarrification for you, I do not support abortion, but I do not think making it illegal will matter. Be will still abort because like I said, if someone wants to do something so bad, they will do it legal or illegal. Although this is far from me supporting abortion.[/quote] I agree with you to an extent, bad things will always happen. But it doesn't mean we should make bad things illegally. People are always going to murder other people. It doesn't mean we as a society don't say 'murder is wrong, and were going to outlaw it' People are probably always going to find ways to abort their babies. But we as a society have a responsibility to say 'abortion is wrong and were going to outlaw it" AIDs is probably here to stay. We have a responsibility to say "pre-martial sex is wrong and we won't stand for anything that encourages it". Same with almost any sort of vice crime. Prostitution is the oldest trade on the books; yet we don't make it 'safer' to acquire these things because they are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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