Police Use Of Psychics/clairvoyants/sensitives

[Ash Wednesday]

I was watching a show where police investigation involved the usage of clairvoyants (or whatever you call them) to try to solve unsolved crimes. What do you guys think of this? Is this basically along the same lines as the consultation of psychics which is condemned by the church, or are these people being given a gift and guidance from the divine to help mankind?

Where is the line drawn as far as the so-called sixth sense goes? I speak not just of situations such as that which I'm asking about -- but also those incidents where people have this dreadful feeling that something bad is going to happen or has happened to a loved one or themselves, and this has turned out to be true.

I guess the latter scenario perhaps might involve angelic intervention and isn't the same as the former. But I'd still like to get your thoughts on this.

[Selah]

Well, usually the "sixth sense" is just a really fancy word that means being able to read people. Social Workers do it all the time. I suppose a "psychic" could look over the same things a polics officer looks over and come to her own conclusions...

And as for people who really do have this gift (though I believe it is rare, simply because so many people claim it nowadays) I would say that it could come from God. One example I know of centers around a girl named Rachel Scott, the first victim of the Columbine Massacre. She had preminitions that she would die young, even going as far as to draw a prophetic picture a half an hour before she died.

I think God could give you these abilities if he chose to, and he has, though the Enemy can as well. I suppose the best way to find out would be to "test the spirits" as the Bible says.

*shrugs* so, um...did that make sense to you? hope so...

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I don't know. I know that some people have very strong 'gut feelings' about things that are often proved to be right, but having a good sense of intuition seems to me to be very different from proclaiming yourself psychic.

As far as I'm aware, people are born with good intuition. It's dependent on logic, empathy, and other such traits of personality and intellect. Psychic powers have to be cultivated, which usually means dabbling in power that is not your own - and power of a very sinister sort, at that. If we trusted God, why would we feel the need to do anything other than pray? Why try and peer into what we could not know through the means that we already have? It all comes down to lack of trust, and it is this fearful anxiety that the devil seeks to exploit.

If you ask a psychic to help in a police investigation, especially one involving vulnerable people, you would also be guilty of making the case a prey to fraudsters. There are plenty of fake psychics out there who charge a fortune for their services, profiteering on people's desperation. I don't think the police should be encouraging it.

[CatherineM]

There are some people who are truly gifted. I think the main way that police can tell the difference, is the real ones don't charge money to try to find missing kid or a murderer.

[Greyhawk]

I recently read the book [url="http://www.amazon.com/Ransomed-Darkness-Christian-Faith-Battle/dp/0972520074/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215005999&sr=8-1"]Ransomed from Darkness: The New Age, Christian Faith, and the Battle for Souls[/url] by Moira Noonan, which details the story of how the author (a fallen away Catholic) immersed in the New Age movement for about twenty years eventually reverted to the Catholic faith with the help of the Blessed Mother. In her book, she makes it clear that psychic abilities such as clairvoyance, clairaudience, and clairsentience developed as a personal talent will involve demonic spirits communicating to you. (She had the gift of clairvoyance, and at times couldn't turn it off, and demons wouldn't let her be at peace.) However, there is the charismatic gift of word of knowledge granted by the Holy Spirit to some, which is a counterpart to the demonic inspired powers listed above. So the real key is the source of the power. In the psychic's case, it brings honor and glory to the individual (pride) whereas word of knowledge recognizes the gift and should be a witness to the Holy Spirit working (honor and glory to God).

[By the way, if you ever thing of dabbling in New Age practices, I'd read the book I mentioned above because it scares me to think of doing any of it now. It was also inspiring to see how God reconnected with her and led her back to the Church.]

In regards to the "sixth sense" or sensing something bad might happen, I think all of us have that ability to some extent and I can't see anything wrong with it. However, I might speak to God at that point to rekindle my dependence on Him and ask for His help, guidance, or whatever the situation might call for.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Greyhawk

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
ash, my opinion is that it is not a good idea. too much potential for scammers.

[havok579257]

it should never be allowed in a criminal case because one can not base these premonitions on fact and if you can't base it on fact then anyone can say anyone is guilty and claim to be a psychic.

[rkwright]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1589106' date='Jul 2 2008, 11:07 AM']it should never be allowed in a criminal case because one can not base these premonitions on fact and if you can't base it on fact then anyone can say anyone is guilty and claim to be a psychic.[/quote]

Just to be clear, using them in a police investigation and using them in court to find someone guilty are two different ideas.

[Lounge Daddy]

Catholic Answers had a great program about psychics and other charlatans.
[url="http://www.catholic.com/radio/event.php?calendar=1&category=&event=5098&date=2008-04-04"]It's archived HERE. [/url]

[Lounge Daddy]

Btw- that same day, they discussed exorcists the first hour.[url="http://www.catholic.com/radio/event.php?calendar=1&category=0&event=5097&date=2008-04-04"] It's archived also, and you get it via the calendar. [/url]

It was a great broadcast, and you would like it Ash
I half expected them to give out separate numbers for east of the Rockies and west of the Rockies, hehe.

[havok579257]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1589121' date='Jul 2 2008, 12:26 PM']Just to be clear, using them in a police investigation and using them in court to find someone guilty are two different ideas.[/quote]


true but i was referring to search and seizure warrents where evidence is needed and not just someone saying they have a feeling something is going to happen.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1589130' date='Jul 2 2008, 12:43 PM']Btw- that same day, they discussed exorcists the first hour.[url="http://www.catholic.com/radio/event.php?calendar=1&category=0&event=5097&date=2008-04-04"] It's archived also, and you get it via the calendar. [/url]

It was a great broadcast, and you would like it Ash
I half expected them to give out separate numbers for east of the Rockies and west of the Rockies, hehe.[/quote]

[Lounge Daddy]

I read Fr. Gabriele Amorth's book [i]An Exorcist Tells His Story[/i]. He mentions in it that he has worked with so-called "sensitives" on many occasions--mostly because they come to him with problems that they become aware of. These are simply people that are particularly and accurately aware of things spiritual. The ones that Fr Amorth works with never boast or even make others aware that they are sensitive to the spiritual... and they never ever seek to contact or any power or control.

Father Fortea mentions in his own book, [i]Interview With an Exorcist[/i], having worked with someone with similar gifts as a spiritual director--right up until pride got in the way. Like all habitual sin, it first seemed nothing, but it was enough that Father Fortea warned this individual... but it grew to become a huge stumbling block. This person sought control and glory and sought to continue to feed his own pride. This person is now miserable, became personally and spiritually destroyed, and no longer has the gifts that The Holy Spirit once granted. Which makes sense to me--in a sense pride is the deliberate removal of oneself from God.

Both Fr. Amorth and Fr Fortea do warn about psychics and seers such. Mostly because the vast majority are charlatans. Others are involved in negative activities, lead others to superstitions, serve to distract from Truth, are rooted in pride firstly, and many times lead to malice, and get everyone involved into spiritual danger--thus, such things are forbidden by the Church.

Both are great books, but they are not for everyone. Father Benedict Groeschel even has a warning in his preface to Father Amorth's book where he states that it's not reading intended for all.

Oh, also--if you can find the interview with Art Bell where Father Martin was on along with Ed Dames. You can probably find a torrent of it somewhere. Ed Dames tells Father Martin than many of the people involved in remote viewing fell into a lot of personal trouble over the years--or worse. He said that the root of it was pride, and thinking that they thought that they could expose themselves to anything. It lead to recklessness. Father Martin's position is that remote viewing invites nothing but trouble. It's a great segment.

[HisChildForever]

To the above poster:

Right. The people who are gifted by God with these gifts should always remember to give God glory, and not themselves. When they begin to glorify themselves (i.e., pride) they point to themselves as special and powerful, whereas the abilities come from God, not from the individual. Clearly, when one begins to take all the credit for themselves and not give it to God, God will no longer bless that individual with the gift(s).

[Ash Wednesday]

Lounge Daddy: I believe what Fr. Martin said to Art Bell, specifically, was that remote viewing was "nytroglycerin for the soul." Very descriptive, no?

Edited July 4, 2008 by Ash Wednesday