Homosexuals And Our Attitude Towards Them

[friendofJPII]

Note I am not saying to chastise homosexuals and ignore fornicators. All I am saying is that since the homosexual agenda is rampant right now, we need to combat it.

Edited July 10, 2008 by friendofJPII

[Jaime]

Ok answer this and see if you can see the flaw in your logic

[quote][b]he did not create people to unite with the [s]opposite[/s] same sex, thus homosexual sex is a direct abrogation of God's design for humanity.[/b][/quote]

that's you (I corrected for you)

So then did God create people to masturbate, view pornography or use contraception?


If he didn't then these things are in the same category. now let's deal with premarital or extramarital sex.

[quote][b]God created men and women to unite physically[/b][/quote]

Just because the male and female parts fit together does not make all mating natural and therefore "less sinful". For example, doing it with your brother would be unnatural even though you have the right equipment. So therefore

heterosexual sex outside of the bond of marriage [b]is a direct abrogation of God's design for humanity[/b]

[friendofJPII]

[b]There is an objective, subjective, and societal nature to the question that I think you are missing.

Mortal sin is both objective and subjective. Something can be a mortal sin objectively, but subjectively it may not be given the person's knowledge of Catholic morality.


These moral questions have a societal impact as well, however. And right now the homosexual agenda is leading our society to embrace a great evil (homosexual marriage) which will lead us further down the road perdition.

So, therefore, to answer your concern, we need to pay attention to it right now. [/b]

Edited July 10, 2008 by friendofJPII

[Jaime]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1596949' date='Jul 10 2008, 12:19 PM'][

So then did God create people to masturbate, view pornography or use contraception?

[b]No, but as a result of the fall, people have a more natural inclination to do these things. [/b]

If he didn't then these things are in the same category. now let's deal with premarital or extramarital sex.
Just because the male and female parts fit together does not make all mating natural and therefore "less sinful". For example, doing it with your brother would be unnatural even though you have the right equipment. So therefore heterosexual sex outside of the bond of marriage [b]is a direct abrogation of God's design for humanity

[b]Incest is more grevious than fornication, what's your point?

You sound like a Protestant who says all sins are equal. They are not.[/b][/quote]
*takes off gloves*

Ok

Where did I ever say that all sins were equal? If you actually read what I wrote, you'd see that "All mortal sins are equal" you got a problem with that take it up with Augustine. [quote]Mortal sin is defined by St. Augustine (Contra Faustum, XXII, xxvii) as "Dictum vel factum vel concupitum contra legem æternam", i.e. something said, done or desired contrary to the [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05551b.htm"]eternal[/url] [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09053a.htm"]law[/url], or a thought, word, or deed contrary to the [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05551b.htm"]eternal[/url] [url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09053a.htm"]law[/url].[/quote]

Contrary to eternal law. And if you know anything about eternal law, you would know that Natural law flows from Eternal Law. SOOOOOOOOO (and see if you can follow along) a mortal sin that contradicts eternal law, HAS TO contradict natural law.

Is that protestant enough for you?

[rachael]

why all the bolded words?

[rkwright]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1596949' date='Jul 10 2008, 11:19 AM'][b]There is an objective, subjective, and societal nature to the question that I think you are missing.

Mortal sin is both objective and subjective. Something can be a mortal sin objectively, but subjectively it may not be given the person's knowledge of Catholic morality.
These moral questions have a societal impact as well, however. And right now the homosexual agenda is leading our society to embrace a great evil (homosexual marriage) which will lead us further down the road perdition.

So, therefore, to answer your concern, we need to pay attention to it right now. [/b][/quote]

Couldn't the same be said of pornography, masturbation, and pre-marital sex?

[rkwright]

[quote name='rachael' post='1596960' date='Jul 10 2008, 11:35 AM']why all the bolded words?[/quote]
[b]LOUD NOISES!
[/b]

[friendofJPII]

[b][b]If your original question dealt with why we need to focus on the homosexuals (and by that I mean those who promote the lifestyle) I think I answered your question. I never said heterosexual sins did not violate the natural law, I said that the homosexual lifestyle[b] further violates [/b]the natural law because of the[b] greater scandal involved.


[b]It is similiar to asking which is worse, the couple who is fornicating but living seperately or the couple who is living together. Objectively, the second couple sin is more harmful to society because of the example they are setting for others. But of course, I'm not giving the first couple a pass.[/b]

Edited July 10, 2008 by friendofJPII

[rachael]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1596965' date='Jul 10 2008, 12:40 PM'][b]LOUD NOISES!
[/b][/quote]

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1596964' date='Jul 10 2008, 11:39 AM']Couldn't the same be said of pornography, masturbation, and pre-marital sex?[/quote]

Those issues are not on the table right now. But even if they were, would we make those things illegal?

[rkwright]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1596977' date='Jul 10 2008, 11:48 AM']Those issues are not on the table right now. But even if they were, would we make those things illegal?[/quote]

I thought Jamie made a pretty good argument that 1) all mortal sins are equal and 2) the way you say homosexuality is worse (scandal to society) can be equally applied to the sins I listed.

Are we talking about making things illegal? I thought we were talking about sin.

Edit: i shouldn't have jumped in... I was bored, jamie has it covered...

Edited July 10, 2008 by rkwright

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1596982' date='Jul 10 2008, 11:53 AM']I thought Jamie made a pretty good argument that 1) all mortal sins are equal and 2) the way you say homosexuality is worse (scandal to society) can be equally applied to the sins I listed.

Are we talking about making things illegal? I thought we were talking about sin.

Edit: i shouldn't have jumped in... I was bored, jamie has it covered...[/quote]

1) all mortal sins are not equal from a societal standpoint. Would you argue that masterbation is equal to destroying the twin towers?

2) No, the advance and acceptance of homosexual marriage is causing greater harm to society than masterbation.

[Jaime]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1596949' date='Jul 10 2008, 12:19 PM'][b]There is an objective, subjective, and societal nature to the question that I think you are missing.

Mortal sin is both objective and subjective. Something can be a mortal sin objectively, but subjectively it may not be given the person's knowledge of Catholic morality.


These moral questions have a societal impact as well, however. And right now the homosexual agenda is leading our society to embrace a great evil (homosexual marriage) which will lead us further down the road perdition.

So, therefore, to answer your concern, we need to pay attention to it right now. [/b][/quote]


Nice change btw

Ok so let me ask you this

Both premarital sex and homosexual acts are mortal sins.

2-10% are involved in one

over half the single population is engaging in the other

50% of women engage in masturbation 90% of men

What is a greater threat and what needs to be talked about more? If the answer still is gay marriage, then you're going against statistics.

[Jaime]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1596989' date='Jul 10 2008, 01:07 PM']1) all mortal sins are not equal from a societal standpoint. Would you argue that masterbation is equal to destroying the twin towers?

2) No, the advance and acceptance of homosexual marriage is causing greater harm to society than masterbation.[/quote]

from a societal standpoint? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?? Society doesn't recognize mortal sins. Talk doctrine or quit wasting my time

And I'll counter your masturbation argument. I don't know if anyone is in hell for masturbation or for running a plane into the towers. But if they are both there, I don't think the masturbator is thinking "wow I'm glad I'm not that guy". It is the total absence of God so good feelings of any degree don't exist.

and to point #2 you sound like a protestant

[Jaime]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1596989' date='Jul 10 2008, 01:07 PM']1) all mortal sins are not equal from a societal standpoint. Would you argue that masterbation is equal to destroying the twin towers?

2) No, the advance and acceptance of homosexual marriage is causing greater harm to society than masterbation.[/quote]

Also would you like to actually address the fact that you seem to contradict Augustine on this?

Or would you prefer to keep up spewing out stuff?