Homosexuals And Our Attitude Towards Them

[rkwright]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1597493' date='Jul 10 2008, 11:10 PM']I didn't say there weren't more evil people or less. I'm saying that according to the Church and the Catechism, mortal sins incur one punishment. Nowhere in Church teaching does it proclaim that there are different levels of hell. Is there? I don't know and neither do you. I know what the Church teaches and I've shown it. If you disagree with it, then you need to understand the teachings of the Church better.

The Church teaches that masturbation, premarital sex and homosexual acts are all grave sins against Chastity. It doesn't say one is more grave.[/quote]

[jmjtina]

mortal sin = hell.

People are reacting to the culture of death, which includes celebrities who glamorize same sex attraction.

And I have never heard of a hierarchy of hell. Care to point out evidence that lends itself to that thought? You say throughout Church history? Where? I've read about the hierarchy in heaven, but in Hell? The only one I could think of is Satan at the top.

But by one step.

I don't remember reading about a hierarchy in Summa Theologica, but I could be wrong. It's time I re-read it anyway.

Edited July 11, 2008 by jmjtina

[johnnydigit]

i think the misunderstanding here may be the gravity of the sin *after* you've already been judged and are in hell (gravity doesn't matter), vs. *after* you've confessed and must deal with reparation and purification from now until purgatory (gravity does matter).

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1597592' date='Jul 11 2008, 02:47 AM']i think the misunderstanding here may be the gravity of the sin *after* you've already been judged and are in hell (gravity doesn't matter), vs. *after* you've confessed and must deal with reparation and purification from now until purgatory (gravity does matter).[/quote]

But there all levels of Hell, the pains of hell differ in degree according to demerit, which are based on the sins one committed in life. The worse the sins the lower in Hell one will go.
[quote]Beyond affirming the existence of such a state, with varying degrees of punishment corresponding to degrees of guilt and its eternal or unending duration, Catholic doctrine does not go. It is a terrible and mysterious truth, but it is clearly and emphatically taught by Christ and the Apostles.

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05528b.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05528b.htm[/url][/quote]

And as Catholics we believe that Christ descended into Hell or "The Limbo of the Fathers”. There the the just waited for Christ to take them to heaven. This Limbo was the first level of hell.

Edited July 11, 2008 by KnightofChrist

[XIX]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1597330' date='Jul 10 2008, 11:29 PM']Despite what certain puppets of modern liberal ideology might tell you[/quote]

[quote]hot stuff is on "ignore," as he has been for some time. I'm not afraid of him; I simply do not wish to waste time with his personal attacks.[/quote]

[img]http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w233/caturdayskwerl/fail-i-told-you.jpg[/img]

Edited July 11, 2008 by XIX

[friendofJPII]

hot stuff,

When I spoke about the need to debate in charity, I was speaking to all of us, not just you.

And when I was talking about the definition of sin, my main emphasis was that sin is committed by a person. And in order for a sin to be mortal sin 3 conditions must be met, and 2 of those conditions are dependent on the individual person. So two people can commit the same sin, but recieve different punishments from God.

That being said, I think you are confusing gravity and outcome. A teenager may be sent to the principal's office and suspended from school if he pushes one student in the bathroom or two students. The punishment (outcome) may be the same. Suspension. But of course, pushing two students is worse because he hurt more people.

We know that time people stay in purgatory is determined by what sins they commited on earth. Certain sins require more reparation than others. Thus certain sins are more serious than others. ---friendofjpii

[LouisvilleFan]

Time in purgatory? Which Catechism did you find that in?

Edited July 11, 2008 by LouisvilleFan

[friendofJPII]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1597622' date='Jul 11 2008, 07:59 AM']Time in purgatory? Which Catechism did you find that in? [/quote]

I don't have the CC on hand but it is common knowledge that people stay in purgatory for different amounts of time

[Jaime]

[quote name='friendofJPII' post='1597615' date='Jul 11 2008, 08:47 AM']hot stuff,

When I spoke about the need to debate in charity, I was speaking to all of us, not just you.

And when I was talking about the definition of sin, my main emphasis was that sin is committed by a person. And in order for a sin to be mortal sin 3 conditions must be met, and 2 of those conditions are dependent on the individual person. So two people can commit the same sin, but recieve different punishments from God.

That being said, I think you are confusing gravity and outcome. A teenager may be sent to the principal's office and suspended from school if he pushes one student in the bathroom or two students. The punishment (outcome) may be the same. Suspension. But of course, pushing two students is worse because he hurt more people.

We know that time people stay in purgatory is determined by what sins they commited on earth. Certain sins require more reparation than others. Thus certain sins are more serious than others. ---friendofjpii[/quote]

FriednofJPII if you want me to teach you about sin, let's start another thread. You are dragging us off topic Because now you are confusing venial and mortal sin. If someone commits a sin, dies and goes to purgatory (and this is key) then they did not meet the criteria of mortal sin. So YES there are different levels of punishment for those in purgatory. But according to Church teaching, people in purgatory did not commit a mortal sin!

[friendofJPII]

[i]But according to Church teaching, people in purgatory did not commit a mortal sin![/i]

Yes, they did. Most of them probably committed a mortal sin at some point in their lifetime. They were forgiven in confession, but they still have to atone for what they have done. And the Church leaves open the possibility that there are non-Catholics in purgatory, who may have not had the opportunity to enter the Church and receive the sacraments. Their sins still have to be atoned for, however. Of course, indulgences, perfect contrition, martyrdom, and God's mercy comes into play here too, we simply do not know or will ever know on this side all the details of the afterlife.

Edited July 11, 2008 by friendofJPII

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1597644' date='Jul 11 2008, 08:16 AM']But according to Church teaching, people in purgatory did not commit a mortal sin![/quote]
Of course they committed mortal sins during their life time, but it is true that they did not die in a state of mortal sin.

Nevertheless, they are atoning for the temporal effects of their sins, both venial and mortal.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1597751' date='Jul 11 2008, 12:14 PM']Of course they committed mortal sins during their life time, but it is true that they did not die in a state of mortal sin.

Nevertheless, they are atoning for the temporal effects of their sins, both venial and mortal.[/quote]

Sorry I'm jumping in so late...

So even if we die in a state of grace we still go to Purgatory?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1597771' date='Jul 11 2008, 10:29 AM']Sorry I'm jumping in so late...

So even if we die in a state of grace we still go to Purgatory?[/quote]
The Latin Church teaches that only those who die in a state of grace can go to purgatory. Those who die in a state of mortal sin go to hell.

Edited July 11, 2008 by Apotheoun

[StColette]

I thought that posting this might help with the equality of sins issue. Father Cappie just addressed this today.

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=82546&view=findpost&p=1597489"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...t&p=1597489[/url]

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1597781' date='Jul 11 2008, 12:38 PM']The Latin Church teaches that only those who die in a state of grace can go to purgatory. Those who die in a state of mortal sin go to hell.[/quote]

Right. Maybe I should clarify my question. Don't those who die in a state of grace go to Heaven? You were saying that they go to Purgatory because they still have to atone for past sins. So my question is, are you saying that when one dies, they either go to Hell or Purgatory, no one goes directly to Heaven? But if we've gone to Confession and are forgiven and wiped clean of our sin, what do we have to atone for?