"phatmass Is Too Orthodox!" Stumbled On Some Pm Hating

[puellapaschalis]

Perhaps the author missed the thread where a Dominican nun was "bullied" (my term) by people to such an extent that she left too. Not because she was being liberal but rather because she spoke in favour of things like an age limit to entrance and asking for a candidate's parents' marriage certificate.

People, whether on Phatmass or not, are rottenly rude and hurtful to each other all the dratted time. It doesn't respect whether one is 'ultra-orthodox' or not.

[prose]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1583628' date='Jun 26 2008, 05:29 AM']All phatmass does is talk about how great the Latin Mass is? Haven't we proven that false by now?[/quote]

Yeah, clearly all we do is argue about it.

[curtins]

Is this person suggesting that lay people cannot comment or have an opinion on religious orders?

Theres no such thing as being too orthodox. Theres orthodox and theres unorthodox.

Maybe true orthodoxy is just too much for some people.

Its sad that a place like phatmass that has done so many people so much good in terms of their faith (speaking from experience) is judged and criticized like this.

[kujo]

[quote name='curtins' post='1583905' date='Jun 26 2008, 03:18 PM']Is this person suggesting that lay people cannot comment or have an opinion on religious orders?

Theres no such thing as being too orthodox. Theres orthodox and theres unorthodox.

Maybe true orthodoxy is just too much for some people.

Its sad that a place like phatmass that has done so many people so much good in terms of their faith (speaking from experience) is judged and criticized like this.[/quote]

Wrong. You can absolutely have varying levels of orthodoxy. You can be extremely rank-and-file and then you can also be pretty much rank-and-file...

[Norseman82]

[quote name='curtins' post='1583905' date='Jun 26 2008, 02:18 PM']Is this person suggesting that lay people cannot comment or have an opinion on religious orders?

Theres no such thing as being too orthodox. Theres orthodox and theres unorthodox.

Maybe true orthodoxy is just too much for some people.

Its sad that a place like phatmass that has done so many people so much good in terms of their faith (speaking from experience) is judged and criticized like this.[/quote]

The problem is, though, when individuals take it upon themselves to define what is orthodox even if the Church has not ruled on something.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='kujo' post='1584019' date='Jun 26 2008, 04:34 PM']Wrong. You can absolutely have varying levels of orthodoxy. You can be extremely rank-and-file and then you can also be pretty much rank-and-file...[/quote]

Cardinal George put it another way when he arrived in Chicago: there are certain things open to discussion, there are certain things that are not.

[kujo]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1584073' date='Jun 26 2008, 07:03 PM']Cardinal George put it another way when he arrived in Chicago: there are certain things open to discussion, there are certain things that are not.[/quote]

Right.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1583876' date='Jun 26 2008, 01:54 PM']Perhaps the author missed the thread where a Dominican nun was "bullied" (my term) by people to such an extent that she left too. Not because she was being liberal but rather because she spoke in favour of things like an age limit to entrance and asking for a candidate's parents' marriage certificate.

People, whether on Phatmass or not, are rottenly rude and hurtful to each other all the dratted time. It doesn't respect whether one is 'ultra-orthodox' or not.[/quote]

I had to search for this thread with the Dominican nun, and in the thread in question she was not even speaking in favor of it, only explaining the history of certain things. However, I find one thing she said to be right on the mark (bolded emphasis mine):

[quote]In order to understand where they were coming from back then you need to TRY to look at the issue from then and not from now [b]or else you will dismiss everyone in your community older than you as nuts or narrowminded, etc.[/b] and any fruitful conversation on the level of Chapter would be almost impossible.[/quote]

And I do think that it represents a very big problem - disdain/disrespect - and even outright hostility - for the experience of people who have either "paid their dues" or have "been there, done that" (or even the very concept that certain people have "paid dues" or have valuable experience to share). Unfortunately, such rudeness/disrespect and accusations of condecension (sp?) are not technically forum violations, so reporting it will not be an avenue of relief in this matter.

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='Lucy Lionheart' post='1583661' date='Jun 26 2008, 07:17 AM'][url="http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=3850686"]http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=3850686[/url]

i googled the first line

i love google

there you have it[/quote]

the jig is up! i knew those who knew how could find it that way. guess i just wanted to be less culpable.

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1583801' date='Jun 26 2008, 10:41 AM']Wouldn't a "non-habited" order just be a secular order?[/quote]

i would say not necessarily. it can get confusing. there's living in community vs. world, habit vs. no habit, public/private vows vs promises, etc. it seems like a secular order is almost the same as a Third Order. whether they wear a habit doesn't seem to denote anything.

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14637b.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14637b.htm[/url]
"Third Orders signify in general lay members of religious orders, i.e. men and women who do not necessarily live in community and yet can claim to wear the habit and participate in the good works of some great order."
"The Third Orders can each be divided into (a) regulars, i.e. living in convents, and (b) seculars, i.e. living in the world. Of these the first take vows, the latter can only make a solemn promise "

it gets confusing.

anywho, the Militia of the Immaculata (MI) are consecrated missionaries who don't wear a habit. they are great. very devout. very loyal to the Magisterium. they don't wear a habit and live in the city.

like said earlier, the CFR's are very orthodox, but not necessarily the most traditional. they are great. they wear the habit and live in the city.

the people who talk more here are more on the traditional side and prefer habits for an even extra outward sign of their devotion. others rather not wear a full habit, whether living in the city or cloistered. we adore them all as servants of God. dude needs to get a grip geesh!