Guest ambrose Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Good evening all! Have a question for you liturgical buffs. At a parish I regularly attend, there's a priest who does not say the "Let us offer each other the sign of peace" section before Communion. This has happened every time he has celebrated Mass. Other priests at this parish DO include the sign of peace. I live in the Archdiocese of NY, and as far as I know, it's the liturgical norm to do Offer the Peace during Mass. I researched online and the information I read said it is usually up to the Bishop to decide whether this is omitted or not. This priest is a very committed, traditional priest who I could not imagine taking liberties with liturgy. So I am wondering 'what's up with that?' Is it a normal thing to omit the sign of peace? (hope this doesn't result in a debate. I am not criticizing this priest, just curious about it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomist-in-Training Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I've never looked this up. I did have a priest once who never said it, either. He truly offered Holy Mass in a very edifying way, always bowing at the Holy Name, referring to the Blessed Mother as "Our Lady Mary" and always using the paten under the chin. One day, he had a young deacon assisting him and at the fixed time the latter fulfilled his rubrical function, saying enthusiastically "Let us offer each other the sign of peace!" It was funny. But, anyways, I don't know the exact details of what is proper. This was a priest from the US but serving in Rome. Though, he's from Lincoln, NE so the bishop there is Bishop Bruskewitz, who could very well have made it non-obligatory. [quote name='ambrose' post='1582308' date='Jun 24 2008, 10:19 PM']Good evening all! Have a question for you liturgical buffs. At a parish I regularly attend, there's a priest who does not say the "Let us offer each other the sign of peace" section before Communion. This has happened every time he has celebrated Mass. Other priests at this parish DO include the sign of peace. I live in the Archdiocese of NY, and as far as I know, it's the liturgical norm to do Offer the Peace during Mass. I researched online and the information I read said it is usually up to the Bishop to decide whether this is omitted or not. This priest is a very committed, traditional priest who I could not imagine taking liberties with liturgy. So I am wondering 'what's up with that?' Is it a normal thing to omit the sign of peace? (hope this doesn't result in a debate. I am not criticizing this priest, just curious about it)[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aalpha1989 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I've seen a lot of priests omit it, all being more traditional priests, but honestly I don't know the reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 The GIRM, which gives the rubrics for celebration of the Pauline rite, used say, "Then the priest [b]may[/b] add: 'Let us offer each other a sign of peace.'" Thus, the rubric as originally written is not really a command; instead, it offers an option that the priest may or may not choose to follow (i.e., having everyone exchange the sign of peace or not). The newer GIRM has been re-worded, and is now less clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1582370' date='Jun 24 2008, 09:51 PM']The newer GIRM has been re-worded, and is now less clear.[/quote] What does it say now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1582413' date='Jun 24 2008, 09:22 PM']What does it say now?[/quote] The same approximate location in the newer GIRM says: "The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament." [no. 82] Edited June 25, 2008 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) In the section of the newer GIRM dealing with different forms of celebration (i.e., chapter 4), comments similar to the older GIRM are found in connection with a mass celebrated without a Deacon: "Afterwards, [b]when appropriate[/b], the priest adds, [i]Offerte vobis pacem[/i] (Let us offer each other the sign of peace)." [no. 154] From this rubric, and others found throughout chapter four of the newer GIRM, one could argue that the optional nature of the exchange of the sign of peace among the faithful remains in force, but on this point the newer GIRM is not as clear as the older one. Edited June 25, 2008 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1582487' date='Jun 24 2008, 11:04 PM']In the section of the newer GIRM dealing with different forms of celebration (i.e., chapter 4), comments similar to the older GIRM are found in connection with a mass celebrated without a Deacon: "Afterwards, [b]when appropriate[/b], the priest adds, [i]Offerte vobis pacem[/i] (Let us offer each other the sign of peace)." [no. 154] From this rubric, and others found throughout chapter four of the newer GIRM, one could argue that the optional nature of the exchange of the sign of peace among the faithful remains in force, but on this point the newer GIRM is not as clear as the older one.[/quote] Under what conditions would the sign of peace not be appropriate? A funeral mass, I would guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1582541' date='Jun 24 2008, 10:43 PM']Under what conditions would the sign of peace not be appropriate? A funeral mass, I would guess?[/quote] Who knows! The rubrics of the modern Roman rite are sketchy at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1582541' date='Jun 25 2008, 01:43 AM']Under what conditions would the sign of peace not be appropriate? A funeral mass, I would guess?[/quote] Flu season. Not kidding. At the seminary daily Masses, they stopped having the sign of peace until after Easter to stop the seminarians from getting their brothers sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1582580' date='Jun 25 2008, 12:25 AM']Flu season. Not kidding. At the seminary daily Masses, they stopped having the sign of peace until after Easter to stop the seminarians from getting their brothers sick.[/quote] Lol, very nice. So is it more practical than theological, or are there elements of each? Apotheon isn't helping with his "sketchy" comments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1582595' date='Jun 25 2008, 02:50 AM']Lol, very nice. So is it more practical than theological, or are there elements of each? Apotheon isn't helping with his "sketchy" comments! [/quote] Both. A parish here at home that I go to sometimes, a Dominican Priory, always omits it. And not for a practical reason. Technically the Rite of Peace still occurs, I believe, with the priest simply saying, "Peace be with you." And the people responding, "Also with you." Personally, I feel like the Sign of Peace is at the most awkward time it could be during Mass. It breaks my focus on the Sacrifice taking place on the altar. It should be before the gifts are taken up to the altar, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1582598' date='Jun 25 2008, 12:54 AM']Both. A parish here at home that I go to sometimes, a Dominican Priory, always omits it. And not for a practical reason. Technically the Rite of Peace still occurs, I believe, with the priest simply saying, "Peace be with you." And the people responding, "Also with you." Personally, I feel like the Sign of Peace is at the most awkward time it could be during Mass. It breaks my focus on the Sacrifice taking place on the altar. It should be before the gifts are taken up to the altar, I think.[/quote] Personally, now that you mention it, I'd agree, and instead put it either at the very beginning after the first blessing, or right at the end just before the priest says "The Mass is ended". Would that make more sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1582601' date='Jun 25 2008, 02:58 AM']Personally, now that you mention it, I'd agree, and instead put it either at the very beginning after the first blessing, or right at the end just before the priest says "The Mass is ended". Would that make more sense?[/quote] Well, it's based off of the whole "don't approach the altar with a grudge against your neighbor" (St. Paul somewhere, I think? "Leave your gifts and make ammends" or something like that). So, I'd say it would need to be in the Liturgy of the Eucharist, but preferably right at the beginning. Sometime before bringing up the gifts, at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 [quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1582603' date='Jun 25 2008, 01:03 AM']Well, it's based off of the whole "don't approach the altar with a grudge against your neighbor" (St. Paul somewhere, I think? "Leave your gifts and make ammends" or something like that). So, I'd say it would need to be in the Liturgy of the Eucharist, but preferably right at the beginning. Sometime before bringing up the gifts, at the very least.[/quote] You mean if you make peace with your neighbour at the start of mass, you might have a new conflict by Communion? Uh oh. Lol. Well I don't know the theological basis, but if you ignored that, it seems to fit better at a less reverent time of the mass, which naturally seems to me to be the beginning or the end. Although I'm probably losing the meaning of the whole sign of peace. I'm sure it isn't meant to be less reverent than the rest of the mass... just the way it often appears, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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