Catholicism And Martial Arts

[Guest Upstater]

I'm a blue belt in Shotokan karate, after less than a year of training....but then I think I'm a bit of a special case as well, because I was going to the school four, sometimes five nights a week for quite a while and trying hard each time to do the best I could with the katas. Then, too, our Sensei advances people as he thinks their skill level allows them, not according to any fixed schedule, so perhaps I took advantage of that too (not trying to brag here, just speculating ).

I've not seen any conflict with my Catholicism thus far. My family lives out in the country, and we have a variety of weapons that we use for target practice and/or hunting, and would be prepared to use in self-defense if it was absolutely necessary. Other posters above have stated the Catholic position on this far better than I, so I'll let their statements stand in place of mine. My school does not engage in any of the Eastern religious customs, unless you count having a minute at the start and end of each class where everybody stands straight with their eyes closed and tries to clear their minds. I've found that part to be good for concentration, which is its stated purpose.

Oh...and this is my first post on this board.

[Winchester]

Bow to your sensei!
[img]http://plutoniumblond.files.wordpress.com/2006/09/rkd2.jpg[/img]

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1582940' date='Jun 25 2008, 05:53 PM']Bow to your sensei!
[img]http://plutoniumblond.files.wordpress.com/2006/09/rkd2.jpg[/img][/quote]
After one week with me in my dojo, you'll be prepared to defend yourself with the STRENGTH of a grizzly, the reflexes of a PUMA, and the wisdom of a man.

[CatherineM]

My dad taught me to box when I was 6 years old. Besides having 5 older brothers that he wanted me to be able to hold my own against, he was convinced the Communists were going to invade at any minute, and they'd come after Catholics first, so he wanted me to be ready.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1582959' date='Jun 25 2008, 12:12 PM']My dad taught me to box when I was 6 years old. Besides having 5 older brothers that he wanted me to be able to hold my own against, he was convinced the Communists were going to invade at any minute, and they'd come after Catholics first, so he wanted me to be ready.[/quote]
Good plan. I assume it worked.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1582709' date='Jun 25 2008, 07:47 AM']I do believe there is some conflict. There is NO argueing that alot of martial arts were not developed as Buddhist Meditation methods. These are the ones I argue a Catholic should avoid. However, some martial arts were developed purely for combative purposes, as a form of self defence or as a form of hand-to-hand combat when things got difficult. These are the ones I have little problem with as it counts as much as a weapon as a gun or a sword does.

Also, for the record, Martial arts is incredibly overrated. For example, a highly trained samurai, no matter HOW good he is with a katana, can be bested 14/15 times by a Scottish Peasent with a Claymore. Western society is so fixated on the East and its customs they've let their own ancient cultural treasures rot and collapse. Almost the only western Sword style anyone knows is Fencing.[/quote]
If someone comes at me with a claymore... I don't want to be in that situation *not matter what*. So I'm gonna run, thank you very much. I have, however, never seen someone be attacked with a claymore.
[quote]To the contrary of what most people may think, Martial Arts were not first developed in China, but rather in Mesopotamia, the cradle of civilisation. Written evidence exists showing that some form of weaponless fighting existed in Mesopotamia as early as 3000-2300BC; much before any civilisation began to emerge in the Far East. Such fighting was used as a means of self defence against others who meant harm and at times, against predators. However, those who practiced such weaponless fighting understood very well the value of the skills they knew and sought not to publicise it.[/quote]
I would argue that it was based on combat first, and the meditation aspect came as it evolved, in most, if not all cases. It's not like it just popped out of nowhere.
[url="http://www.martialartsguild.com/Introduction.php"]http://www.martialartsguild.com/Introduction.php[/url]

Edited June 25, 2008 by Nihil Obstat

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1583045' date='Jun 25 2008, 07:48 PM']I would argue that it was based on combat first, and the meditation aspect came as it evolved, in most, if not all cases. It's not like it just popped out of nowhere.
[url="http://www.martialartsguild.com/Introduction.php"]http://www.martialartsguild.com/Introduction.php[/url][/quote]
That's what I'd thought. I don't know the history of each one, but I know that with Tai Chi, the style of Tai Chi was developed before it was associated with Taoist philosophy. It was just that it was found to agree with Taoist thought as Taoism was developed, and not that Tai Chi was developed with Taoist philosophy in mind or as a basis for it. Like I said, though, I don't know the in-depth histories of each style or anything, and only know a little about Tai Chi, since I was thinking about taking a class.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1583071' date='Jun 25 2008, 02:18 PM']That's what I'd thought. I don't know the history of each one, but I know that with Tai Chi, the style of Tai Chi was developed before it was associated with Taoist philosophy. It was just that it was found to agree with Taoist thought as Taoism was developed, and not that Tai Chi was developed with Taoist philosophy in mind or as a basis for it. Like I said, though, I don't know the in-depth histories of each style or anything, and only know a little about Tai Chi, since I was thinking about taking a class.[/quote]
Every history source I've ever read about martial arts says it comes from combat systems. generally sport, but not always.
If you want to look at Asia in particular, it evolved because the authorities made it illegal for common folk to own weapons, so they learned to protect themselves with whatever was available. Sticks, farming tools, often bare hands.
Meditation was alraedy intimately part of Asian culture, I suppose as a part of Shinto or Taoism (though you shouldn't quote me on this), and I would posit that the link betweenmartial arts and meditation was only a natural progression as these new systems of combat became legitimately integrated into their culture.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1583073' date='Jun 25 2008, 08:21 PM']Every history source I've ever read about martial arts says it comes from combat systems. generally sport, but not always.
If you want to look at Asia in particular, it evolved because the authorities made it illegal for common folk to own weapons, so they learned to protect themselves with whatever was available. Sticks, farming tools, often bare hands.
Meditation was alraedy intimately part of Asian culture, I suppose as a part of Shinto or Taoism (though you shouldn't quote me on this), and I would posit that the link betweenmartial arts and meditation was only a natural progression as these new systems of combat became legitimately integrated into their culture.[/quote]
Didn't know that. Cool - thanks.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1583075' date='Jun 25 2008, 02:24 PM']Didn't know that. Cool - thanks. [/quote]
No need to thank me.
Interesting stuff to read about though, how things developed.

[Selah]

I see no conflict either. Course, I see no conflict with yoga either, so my opinion may not be quite valid...

Anyhow, back onto the topic...I learned somewhere that Karate came about when soldiers at war had no weapons to use in order to fight, so they were trained to fight with their bodies if need be.

I have always wanted to learn. It's great to learn self-defense, and there are so many different types of martial arts too!

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Selah' post='1583192' date='Jun 25 2008, 04:34 PM']I see no conflict either. Course, I see no conflict with yoga either, so my opinion may not be quite valid...

Anyhow, back onto the topic...I learned somewhere that Karate came about when soldiers at war had no weapons to use in order to fight, so they were trained to fight with their bodies if need be.

I have always wanted to learn. It's great to learn self-defense, and there are so many different types of martial arts too![/quote]
In general I'd say yoga is fine, but I think some particular teachers really get into the mantras and that sort of thing... and that's where we stop liking it.
That's probably one aspect of how it developed, but from almost every source I've seen it was intended for the common folk.
Of course now, these days, almost every military trains its soldiers in some sort of martial arts, like Krav Maga and some forms of karate, Silek (spelling? Silak?), that sort of thing.

[Kirisutodo333]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1582709' date='Jun 25 2008, 09:47 AM']I do believe there is some conflict. There is NO argueing that alot of martial arts were not developed as Buddhist Meditation methods. These are the ones I argue a Catholic should avoid. However, some martial arts were developed purely for combative purposes, as a form of self defence or as a form of hand-to-hand combat when things got difficult. These are the ones I have little problem with as it counts as much as a weapon as a gun or a sword does.

[b]Also, for the record, Martial arts is incredibly overrated. For example, a highly trained samurai, no matter HOW good he is with a katana, can be bested 14/15 times by a Scottish Peasent with a Claymore.[/b] Western society is so fixated on the East and its customs they've let their own ancient cultural treasures rot and collapse. Almost the only western Sword style anyone knows is Fencing.[/quote]

That's quite a boast. Where is this stat or experiment taken from?

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Kirisutodo333' post='1583344' date='Jun 25 2008, 09:40 PM']That's quite a boast. Where is this stat or experiment taken from?[/quote]

90% of statistics and quotes are made up on the spot.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1583348' date='Jun 25 2008, 07:45 PM']90% of statistics and quotes are made up on the spot.[/quote]
I prefer to say 87%. Seems even more precise.