"america Is No Longer Christian"

[Didymus]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1589996' date='Jul 3 2008, 09:59 AM']Who says atheists, agnostics, witches, and Catholics can't have [url="http://www.godlessprolifers.org/"]something in common[/url]?[/quote]

Ive been preaching this forever on here but no one seems to listen. I think you first have to convince the right-wingers that many liberals are pro-life too...

[LouisvilleFan]

I wouldn't say that "many" liberals are pro-life... maybe a surprising number are, but it's interesting to find that Christians aren't the only ones who feel like their viewpoints are ignored by the mass media.

A Catholic friend of mine recently forwarded me a poll, I think by the Pew Forum, that indicated about 15% of atheists and agnostics are against abortion and homosexual lifestyles. I found that especially interesting and this web site at least provides some good insight into non-religious pro-life perspectives. They have some good arguments and ideas, I think.

[Didymus]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1590069' date='Jul 3 2008, 11:54 AM']I wouldn't say that "many" liberals are pro-life... maybe a surprising number are, but it's interesting to find that Christians aren't the only ones who feel like their viewpoints are ignored by the mass media.[/quote]

<<Some liberals [i]are[/i] Christians...

Look who else we tend to shun within the pro-life movement:
[url="http://plagal.org/"]http://plagal.org/[/url]

Edited July 3, 2008 by Didymus

[LouisvilleFan]

I've never heard anyone shun them. As far as group like PLAGAL and the Atheist and Agnostic Pro-Life League share are stand against abortion, we can stand with them. However, not all these groups share a consistent pro-life ethic. The pro-life pagan group called Natural Rights that's linked from PLAGAL's site views abstinence as "one healthy choice" that "may not be right for everyone." I'd like to know who was ever killed by not having sex. Plus, they want all women to receive equal education about and access to birth control, which is also known to result in an abortion.

Still, it's encouraging to see there are some strong non-Christian voices speaking against abortion.

[Lisieux Flower]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1593580' date='Jul 7 2008, 09:09 AM']Plus, they want all women to receive equal education about and access to birth control, which is also known to result in an abortion.

Still, it's encouraging to see there are some strong non-Christian voices speaking against abortion.[/quote]

What if this group was referring to condoms? (which doesn't directly result in abortion) I guess I don't know what they're necessarily advocating. I agree that we can definitely stand with them. It's [b]so[/b] important to find common ground with other pro-life groups.

I think it's AWESOME when non-Christian groups speak out against abortion. We need to secularize the issue so people see that we aren't trying to force our religion on anyone else, but we're just standing up for life.

Edited July 7, 2008 by Lisieux Flower

[kujo]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1593580' date='Jul 7 2008, 11:09 AM']I've never heard anyone shun them. As far as group like PLAGAL and the Atheist and Agnostic Pro-Life League share are stand against abortion, we can stand with them. However, not all these groups share a consistent pro-life ethic. The pro-life pagan group called Natural Rights that's linked from PLAGAL's site views abstinence as "one healthy choice" that "may not be right for everyone." I'd like to know who was ever killed by not having sex. Plus, they want all women to receive equal education about and access to birth control, which is also known to result in an abortion.

Still, it's encouraging to see there are some strong non-Christian voices speaking against abortion.[/quote]

I say that anyone who isn't against us is for us. If we disagree with them on the methods to prevent unplanned pregnancies, fine. As long as we are united in our common goal of preserving the dignity of human life.

[quote name='Lisieux Flower' post='1593654' date='Jul 7 2008, 12:00 PM']I think it's AWESOME when non-Christian groups speak out against abortion. We need to secularize the issue so people see that we aren't trying to force our religion on anyone else, but we're just standing up for life. [/quote]

I agree. I don't think you need to be a Christian or a Catholic to view life as precious and deserving of protection. I defy any atheist mother or father to tell me that a fetus isn't a baby to go to their first ultrasound and hear their baby's heartbeat. The Truth is etched onto the core of our very being. But throughout the course of our life, the pains and disappointments get heaped onto that Truth, distorting our vision and causing our point of view to go askew; however, the facts remain engrained in us and we know the truth when we see it.

[Selah]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1580416' date='Jun 23 2008, 05:38 PM']In case you haven't noticed, America *does* contain religions of all sorts and is not *just* a nation of Christians. Why does such a fact offend you so much?

[/quote]


I agree. We are a nation of all kinds

[Hassan]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1589955' date='Jul 3 2008, 08:14 AM']No sense trying to confuse these people with the facts. They have their minds made up.[/quote]


America is not a Christian nation in any significant sense of the term.

[quote]You know our country is in trouble the day when even Christians deny that America is a Christian nation, and are totally unwilling to defend the nation as such.[/quote]

it's not

[quote]And the worse part is, they don't even know what it means when we say "Christian nation". They actually think we are stupid enough to mean the national religion is Christianity.[/quote]

Well. When numerous high profile Christians claim that homosexuality ought to be illegal because "America is a Christian Nation" we get confused I suppose.

I made a thread about this. Why don't you spell out [i]exactly[/i] what you mean by this.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1590008' date='Jul 3 2008, 09:17 AM']Ive been preaching this forever on here but no one seems to listen. I think you first have to convince the right-wingers that many liberals are pro-life too...[/quote]


[quote name='Didymus' post='1590116' date='Jul 3 2008, 11:44 AM']<<Some liberals [i]are[/i] Christians...

Look who else we tend to shun within the pro-life movement:
[url="http://plagal.org/"]http://plagal.org/[/url][/quote]
What exactly is your point here?

If so many liberals are pro-life, then why do they keep nominating and supporting for vehemently pro-abortion candidates like Obama, Clinton, Kerry, Gore, etc.?
And how is this the fault of "right-wingers"?

And I've seen the "gays for life" or whatever they call themselves at the March for Life in years past, and nobody kicked them out or anything. If they want to oppose abortion, that's good, though it's understandable that Christian pro-lifers would not wish to give them high profile - as they oppose one evil agenda, while at the same time support another.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1599197' date='Jul 13 2008, 01:24 PM']America is not a Christian nation in any significant sense of the term.
it's not[/quote]
Dude, did you even read the quotes I posted in [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=81849&view=findpost&p=1589711"]post #27[/url]?

[quote]Well. When numerous high profile Christians claim that homosexuality ought to be illegal because "America is a Christian Nation" we get confused I suppose.[/quote]
Could you provide an example of one of these "numerous high profile Christians"? I believe homosexuality is immoral, and I certainly don't think it deserves special legal benefits, but I haven't heard anyone with any real political clout talking about banning it.

[Mercy me]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1599197' date='Jul 13 2008, 02:24 PM']Well. When numerous high profile Christians claim that homosexuality ought to be illegal because "America is a Christian Nation" we get confused I suppose.[/quote]

I don't think I have heard anyone here, save the Iranian president, say that homosexuality should be illegal. What has been said is that they should not be permitted to marry.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1599471' date='Jul 13 2008, 08:13 PM']Dude, did you even read the quotes I posted in [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=81849&view=findpost&p=1589711"]post #27[/url]?[/quote]

Yes I did.


[quote]Could you provide an example of one of these "numerous high profile Christians"? I believe homosexuality is immoral, and I certainly don't think it deserves special legal benefits, but I haven't heard anyone with any real political clout talking about banning it.[/quote]






I believe Pat Robinson and the late Mr. Falwell, two hugely influential figures on the right, both claimed that 9/11 occurred because the nation tolerated homosexuals, feminists and pagans.



While most of his book was confused and poorly reasoned, Professor Dawkins actually cites numerous clear instances of this sort of rhetoric in "The God Delusion". If you really need me to I can find you specific instances.

When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do you mean?' the media challenged me. `You're not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?' My simple answer is, `Yes, they are.'" --from Pat Robertson's "The New World Order," page 218.

"The Constitution of the United States, for instance, is a marvelous document for self-government by the Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian people and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society. And that's what's been happening." -- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, Dec. 30, 1981
It is interesting, that termites don't build things, and the great builders of our nation almost to a man have been Christians, because Christians have the desire to build something. He is motivated by love of man and God, so he builds. The people who have come into (our) institutions (today) are primarily termites. They are into destroying institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have.... The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and the time has arrived for a godly fumigation."--Pat Robertson, New York Magazine, August 18, 1986

"There is no such thing as separation of church and state in the Constitution. It is a lie of the Left and we are not going to take it anymore." --Pat Robertson, November 1993 during an address to the American Center for Law and Justice
"We're going to bring back God and the Bible and drive the gods of secular humanism right out of the public schools of America." --Presidential candidate Pat Buchanan addressing the anti-gay rally in Des Moines, 2-11-96

"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."--Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93