Can One Decide To Be An Athiest?

[Deb]

[quote name='JustJ' post='1580688' date='Jun 23 2008, 07:09 PM']Okay, let's just assume you're right for a second.

Why does the first cause have to be god?

Wow, so I take it you haven't actually read the bible in full, huh? God is love. Love is not jealous. I am a jealous god. There's one internal inconsistency. It doesn't speak much against the bible, except for the fact that it shows that it cannot truly be the perfect, inerrant work it is often held to be.

1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for [b]God is love[/b].
1Cor 13:4 Love is patient, [b]love[/b] is kind and [b]is not jealous[/b]; love does not brag and is not arrogant
Ex 20:5 You shall not worship them or serve them; [b]for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God[/b], visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

The "by chance" part is something that Occam's Razor would have you shave off unless you can prove it is by chance and not through natural processes.

Who said this universe is ruled by chance?

When you can stop saying the universe must be ruled either by god or blind chance without a third option of nonrandom natural processes, I will read further arguments related to such things.

No, I don't need faith to not believe in a god. I do need faith to believe there is a god, because there isn't enough evidence to support the god hypothesis. There is, however, evidence suggesting that the universe is governed by natural forces without the need for an intelligent designer. I believe what the evidence shows without a need for faith.

That is simply not true, and I would dare you to cite some credible source saying just that.[/quote]

I have to admit that I find you very entertaining. You list two bible passages regarding love and jealousy and you try to link them together to show that they somehow prove that God doesn't exist because of that. You may not want to toss around comments about people here not having read the bible. Your attempt to prove a negative from it just gives me the giggles. I would bet you are just passing on some other persons lame attempt at using the Bible to disprove it. Inerrancy in the bible simple means that the Bible tells the truth.

First, as most atheists and most Protestants, you can pull anything you want out of the bible and use it to whatever end you want. What you can't do, is understand what the passage meant in the context it was used, in the time it was used and by whom it was used. You can't because you cannot even begin to understand that unless and until you have the gift of faith and the aid of the Holy Spirit.
When you have read every word of the bible and understand every passage in relation to Jesus Christ and the plan of God, then, your quoting the bible may actually have some relevance to whatever topic you may be using it for. Right now, you don't have a clue.

See, faith in God is completely in sync with reason. One you truly have been given the gift of faith, it becomes crystal clear. God will give you everything you need to know to recognize truth, in many many things. Now, how can I convince you of that? I can't. I wouldn't even try. I can pray that some day your heart will be softened enough so that when God calls to you, you will hear him.

You can blow your windbaggery about science around until the rain falls on my grave and you could never convince me that God does not exist. I laugh at your attempts. They are like a child who found a new toy and thinks that he is so very special with his new toy. He later discovers that it is a toy that others threw away a very long time ago. It means nothing.

If you can deny the New Testament, when most of the world acknowledges the existance of Christ and his performance of miracles etc, then you really know nothing about the bible or the history of the world.

A group of a couple hundred went out from Christ to spread the Good News as they were witness to and today there are over two billion people who know that Jesus Christ exists, that there is a God and that the bible is the word of the Lord. There aren't enough atheists to fuel a Porky's chain.

Good luck. You do prove though, that anyone can decide to be an atheist. Anyone can also choose to wear their ass as a hat. Doesn't always make sense in the long run though.

Love and blessings.

[JustJ]

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='1580742' date='Jun 23 2008, 07:59 PM']i dont think youre wrong J. i agree completely with you. i cant have an open mind and tell someone they are wrong. not if you believe you arent . because to you, you are right. and to me i believe in Santa Clause. with all my heart. and i think he is not real to those who do not believe in him. but he is real to me. i met a black guy name Moses that told me his real name was Jesus. i never said he was and never said he wasnt. but i did ask him, is that your real name. and he said. yes. to him, he was Jesus. so who am i to say he wasnt??
but i am curious, doesnt infinite existance (upon the belief of perfect love and harmony) appeal to you or at least sound the least bit intriguing??[/quote]
If I were religious, I would pray for you. You really do need all the help you can get.

Truth is absolute and objective. I don't care how much you believe something. If you believe that all ducks are purple and that you are being followed everywhere you go by an invisible pink unicorn that grants you wishes, you could believe it with all your heart, but it still doesn't make it true. It makes you delusional.

Regardless of the appeal of believing that there is a god who loves me and looks after me and has my best interests in mind and answers my prayers and made everything that is just for the sake of making me eternally happy in heaven, new heaven, and new earth in the new Jerusalem, I see no evidence suggesting that it is true, and so I am forced to believe the grim reality that we are alone in a cold, uncaring world guided only by natural processes and that, at any minute, we could be wiped off the face of this planet.

However, it is knowing this that makes life that much more precious, something scarce not to be taken for granted.

[rckllnknny]

i meant, to each their own.

[rckllnknny]

[quote name='JustJ' post='1580767' date='Jun 23 2008, 08:10 PM']Regardless of the appeal of believing that there is a god who loves me and looks after me and has my best interests in mind and answers my prayers and made everything that is just for the sake of making me eternally happy in heaven, new heaven, and new earth in the new Jerusalem, I see no evidence suggesting that it is true, and so I am forced to believe the grim reality that we are alone in a cold, uncaring world guided only by natural processes and that, at any minute, we could be wiped off the face of this planet.[/quote]


that is exactly how i felt too. im not here to convince you tho. there would be no argumentative point.
but i can relate to you that that is exactly how i felt for a long long time. but i also stated i wished it wasnt true because it is in fact the result of a cold, uncaring world.
but i do feel the imagination is as powerful as the art of creation.
and like i said, for me, it wasnt until it my place in time.....

[peach_cube]

[quote name='JustJ' post='1580741' date='Jun 23 2008, 07:59 PM']Which part of it?[/quote]
All.

[quote name='JustJ' post='1580741' date='Jun 23 2008, 07:59 PM']All of the nonrandom natural forces, as well as the random ones such as are found in quantum mechanics, though they are far from emphasized on anything beyond the quantum level, which is the world of the very, very small.

If you want me to be more specific, you have to be more specific first. There is no one theory of everything yet discovered (though that is a primary goal of many theoretical physicists who wish to remove the first word from their title), so I cannot briefly tell you how everything is how it is.[/quote]

Nonrandom natural forces:
-Laws of Physics
-Principles of evolution
Am I missing anything?

Finally, just a bit a background since it helps to know the audience for whom you are writing. I teach an introductory astronomy course so I will most likely know what you are talking about with very little explanation of the concept. If I may ask, what is your background in the sciences?

[JustJ]

[quote name='Deb' post='1580757' date='Jun 23 2008, 08:07 PM']I have to admit that I find you very entertaining. You list two bible passages regarding love and jealousy and you try to link them together to show that they somehow prove that God doesn't exist because of that.[/quote]
No, I said that the bible has inconsistencies. This alone does not somehow prove that god doesn't exist.
[quote name='Deb' post='1580757' date='Jun 23 2008, 08:07 PM']You may not want to toss around comments about people here not having read the bible.[/quote]
I guess maybe people just forget about these little inconsistencies with all the rest of the garbage.
[quote name='Deb' post='1580757' date='Jun 23 2008, 08:07 PM']Your attempt to prove a negative from it just gives me the giggles.[/quote]
I'm not trying to prove a negative. There is no need for that. I need only show that there is no good reason to believe in a god. The burden of proof is on the theist. I am just destroying your arguments.
[quote name='Deb' post='1580757' date='Jun 23 2008, 08:07 PM']I would bet you are just passing on some other persons lame attempt at using the Bible to disprove it. Inerrancy in the bible simple means that the Bible tells the truth.[/quote]
Not according to every fundamentalist I've ever heard. I'm glad you can disagree with them.

However, how exactly can the bible be telling the truth if it makes mistakes?

The rest of your whole post assumes that faith is a [i]positive feature[/i]. Why?

[rckllnknny]

....oops.
(edited out)

Edited June 24, 2008 by rckllnknny

[rckllnknny]

is alycin your sister?

[JustJ]

[quote name='peach_cube' post='1580779' date='Jun 23 2008, 08:17 PM']All.
Nonrandom natural forces:
-Laws of Physics
-Principles of evolution
Am I missing anything?[/quote]
Okay. I'll just say those. The laws of physics and principles of evolution (which is really just applied biology (which is applied chemistry (which is applied physics (which is applied math)))) are the nonrandom natural forces you seem to be asking for. :3
[quote name='peach_cube' post='1580779' date='Jun 23 2008, 08:17 PM']Finally, just a bit a background since it helps to know the audience for whom you are writing. I teach an introductory astronomy course so I will most likely know what you are talking about with very little explanation of the concept. If I may ask, what is your background in the sciences?[/quote]
Years and years of independent study because the American school system is pathetic and did very little to foster my desire to learn. I learned too fast for the rest of the class, and as a result, was being held back from my full potential, and so I looked to other sources of knowledge to read over and learn, and I believe that I will never be done with my learning, but I am always ready to listen to other arguments, should they be reasonable, logical, and rational.

If you would like to correct me on something, feel free to tell me exactly where, how, and why I am wrong. I will do the same for you every chance I get.

[Alycin]

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='1580789' date='Jun 23 2008, 08:21 PM']is alycin your sister?[/quote]


No. Is it relevant?

[JustJ]

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='1580789' date='Jun 23 2008, 08:21 PM']is alycin your sister?[/quote]
No, she is just a very good and intellectually stimulating friend.

[rckllnknny]

it could of been..

[Alycin]

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='1580799' date='Jun 23 2008, 08:27 PM']it could of been..[/quote]

Are you still stuck on the whole look-alike theory? Honestly? We both wear glasses. And we have completely different frames. Seriously. Start a new thread, Rick, if you wanna speculate about our relationship.

[JustJ]

[quote name='rckllnknny' post='1580799' date='Jun 23 2008, 08:27 PM']it could of been..[/quote]
I'm curious as to how.

Pretend we said yes just so I can hear what you were going to say!

[rckllnknny]

youre right it was just a speculation.
for some reason i was lead to believe whatever (relationship) you two may have was the determining motives behind his reasonings, like im jealous of alycin getting attention on here. or in life. so i thought i would argue everything like she does.

sorry about that. my bad.

Edited June 24, 2008 by rckllnknny