Clerical Celibacy

[Alycin]

Excuse my ignorance, but I always get confused with the different Catholic... umm... groups?

What makes an Irish Catholic different from a Roman Catholic? Or is there no difference? Is it like saying American Catholic?

And everything falls under Roman Catholic? Or no?

(Sorry for not knowing this, this is probably something I should know.)

[Apotheoun]

Generally speaking "Irish" Catholics are Roman Catholics, although there may be a few Eastern Cahtolics in Ireland. In fact, almost every Catholic in Western Europe would be a Roman Catholic.

[Nihil Obstat]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only officially 'different' Catholics (different, for lack of a better term at the moment) are the Eastern Catholics, distinct from Orthodox.
So the majority of us are "Roman Catholic", which generally includes the Irish, the American, and most of Western Europe, and the official distinctions only come in when we refer to the particular churches in the East.
Of course I don't want to step on Apotheon's toes here, because he knows way better than me.

...I didn't know any of this until just a couple months ago, and these sorts of things are the facts that I live on. I'm not at all surprised when anyone tells me they've never heard of it.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Nihil Obstat

[Apotheoun]

If one accepts the common religious statistical information found in almanacs and the like: there are about 1 billion Roman Catholics in the world, and about 18 million Eastern Catholics.

[Nihil Obstat]

No wonder no one knows. You need to yell louder, be that vocal minority.
hahaha

[Apotheoun]

Most Eastern Catholics would prefer to live quietly in their d[i]u[/i]st speck.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Apotheoun

[dominicansoul]

I believe that celibacy is necessary for the priesthood because all priest are alter-Christus, and should be in imitation of Jesus Christ, who lived his life in perfect celibacy.

Matthew 19:11-12: "Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom it is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, [i]because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God.[/i] Whoever can accept this ought to accept it."

Again, priesthood isn't a right, it's a privilege, and it is only given to those who are called and who can accept it. It is wise to discern heavily on this, NO, since you have a desire for marriage...

Edited June 19, 2008 by dominicansoul

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1575702' date='Jun 18 2008, 09:48 PM']I believe that chastity is necessary for the priesthood because all priest are alter-Christus, and should be in imitation of Jesus Christ, who lived his life in perfect celibacy.[/quote]
That is the general view held in the Latin Church, but Eastern Catholics don't agree.

The majority of the original Apostles were married men.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Apotheoun

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1575702' date='Jun 18 2008, 10:48 PM']I believe that celibacy is necessary for the priesthood because all priest are alter-Christus, and should be in imitation of Jesus Christ, who lived his life in perfect celibacy.

Matthew 19:11-12: "Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom it is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, [i]because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God.[/i] Whoever can accept this ought to accept it."

Again, priesthood isn't a right, it's a privilege, and it is only given to those who are called and who can accept it. It is wise to discern heavily on this, NO, since you have a desire for marriage...[/quote]


Oooh... harsh.
...and extremely clear.
It doesn't change the fact, however, that I feel drawn to some form of priesthood, albeit not as much as the married life.
In the end though, it comes right down to the choice between marriage and Holy Orders, and at this point in my life (however young I am) I would choose marriage.

[dominicansoul]

I am very happy the Latin Rite priest don't marry, and I hope and pray they never get any ideas to stray from this...

I myself am discerning religious life. No one ever mentions anything about the ladies remaining celibate. I wonder why? But we do it in example of the Blessed Mother. As Jesus says whoever can accept it should.

Celibacy in no way is a negative. It is extremely positive. I've never viewed it as "giving up" anything. It isn't an "absence" in my self...it's actually making me whole. Celibacy is completing me. In a sense, it is contributing to my giving my total self entirely to God...giving my total mind, soul and body. I have no one else to be in love with but God. And in the process, God blesses me with more than I could ever imagine. I will be a spiritual mother to hundreds of children...I will love to the faith as many people as comes into my path...I will love as God wishes me to love...

It's exactly as He says...not everyone can accept it. You have to be called. And I truly hope and pray that the Latin Church never loses this gift of the celibate priesthood and the celibate religious life. It is a beautiful tradition, and I know it is divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit...because there is no way it could be possible if it weren't for God.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1575712' date='Jun 18 2008, 10:54 PM']Oooh... harsh.
...and extremely clear.
It doesn't change the fact, however, that I feel drawn to some form of priesthood, albeit not as much as the married life.
In the end though, it comes right down to the choice between marriage and Holy Orders, and at this point in my life (however young I am) I would choose marriage.[/quote]


In no way was I trying to be harsh...just stating why we believe the way we believe...

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='dominicansoul' post='1575738' date='Jun 18 2008, 11:12 PM']In no way was I trying to be harsh...just stating why we believe the way we believe...[/quote]

It sounded harsh.
In any case, I know what we believe, and I'll never say anything against what we believe. The right path is often not the easiest one, but that doesn't mean we can't wish it was just a bit easier.
After all, I'd love to have it both ways. That's not to say that I want to be able to sin or anything, but it would be easier if it were different.
I'm sure you understand what I'm trying to say.
Almost my bedtime, mind isn't as sharp as I want.

[Stacey]

I am surprised this hasn't been mentioned but there are married priests in the Catholic Church - those who for various reasons were clergy in other christian denominations that have converted. Many of these also have children - some of school age - and are now fully fledged Roman Catholic Priests. These men have to give up a lot to convert so it is a serious choice - many have no other skills/way of making a living so the Barmabas society tries to support some of them financially/spiritually/mentally.
They are no less priests than those who are celibate and have not converted and their ministry is invaluable - it may not be the answer to our shortage of priests and it is certainly not the way for everyone but we do have them, they do have value and should be remembered - they are too easily forgotten. There are still converts in our seminaries too who need support, please pray for them. Celibacy is not the essential element of priesthood - St Peter was married and Jesus chose him to lead his church! Pax.

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1575712' date='Jun 18 2008, 09:54 PM']In the end though, it comes right down to the choice between marriage and Holy Orders, and at this point in my life (however young I am) I would choose marriage.[/quote]
It's not really [i]our[/i] choice though; it's [u]God's[/u] choice. It's what vocation you are called to. Celibacy is a gift given by God to him who is called to the priesthood in the Roman Catholic Church. I am sure many men who are priests today had always imagined they would someday be married, but when they experienced the call from God who is Love, everything changed, and the heart became set on giving itself totally to God alone, to that union with God, which marriage in this world is but a sign of. Again, celibacy is a gift given by God. As Fr. Corapi says, why throw the gift back at Him?

An Encyclical of Pope Pius XII, [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_25031954_sacra-virginitas_en.html"][i]Sacra Virginitas[/i][/url]

Also, I would recommend reading or listening to anything by Fr. Thomas Loya, a Byzantine Catholic priest, like this, [url="http://ourfatherswillcommunications.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TOTBMC&Product_Code=LL05&Category_Code="][i]The Theology of the Body & Celibacy[/i][/url] He is celibate himself, although he is not against married men being ordained in the Eastern Catholic Churches of course. He often gives talks on the Theology of the Body.

[url="http://www.byzantinecatholic.com/"]http://www.byzantinecatholic.com/[/url]
[url="http://www.byzantinecatholic.com/radio.htm"]http://www.byzantinecatholic.com/radio.htm[/url]

Also, just a thought - although the apostles, besides St. John, were married, they were so [i]before[/i] they left everything to follow Jesus, and be ordained to the priesthood. I'm pretty sure in the Eastern Churches, while married men can be ordained, ordained men cannot marry. It seems that the apostles, after leaving everything for Our Lord, were also asked to sacrifice even the great good of marriage for the sake of the Kingdom.

[Apotheoun]

Celibate priesthood is merely a discipline, and not a divinely inspired tradition.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Apotheoun