Apotheoun Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Although I understand your feelings, I do not think a change in the discipline of the Latin Church is likely to happen. Frankly, as an Eastern Catholic I simply hope that my Church's actions will be ignored by the hierarchy of the Latin Church, so that they will leave us alone and not force their disciplline in this area on us once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 Just ignore you? I'll be honest, before about two months ago, I thought that all the 'Eastern' churches were Orthodox. When I found out that there were Eastern Catholic particular churches, I felt this weird sense of pride. If it were up to me, I'd try to forget about anything that might have gone wrong in the past (which I have no inkling about), remember that we're all Catholic, and have a big EastAndWest party! () That's just my take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) We are in communion with each other, but the past forms part of who we are today, and so it cannot be forgotten. Certainly past wrongs should be forgiven, but never forgotten. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=71958&view=findpost&p=1375744"][u]A post that explains some of the history of the Ruthenian Church in America[/u][/url] [i]Below is some information on the experience of Eastern Catholics in America that can be found in a book entitled: "Making the Irish American: History and Heritage of the Irish in the United States," by Joseph Lee and Marion R. Casey.[/i] Perhaps the single biggest failure of the American Catholic Church in responding to the successive waves of Catholic immigrants involved the Ukrainian and Carpatho-Rusyn members. As Byzantine-rite Catholics (or Greek-rite Catholics, as they were commonly called), for centuries in Eastern Europe they had enjoyed their own hierarchy, liturgy, canon law, and the longstanding custom of a married clergy. In the United States, however, the latter practice aroused fierce hostility from the American bishops, who refused to permit it. "The possible loss of a few souls of the Greek rite," the U.S. archbishops declared in 1893, "bears no proportion to the blessings resulting from uniformity of discipline." As a result of this episcopal obtuseness, which deprived Byzantine-rite Catholics of the services of their own clergy, some 225,000 eventually left the Catholic Church and joined the hitherto numerically insignificant Russian Orthodox Church. The situation began to improve only after 1907 with the appointment of Stephen Ortynsky as the first Byzantine-rite bishop in the United States. (pages 577-578) Edited June 19, 2008 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1575578' date='Jun 18 2008, 08:02 PM']Just ignore you? [/quote] Yes. I hope the Latin hierarchy ignores us. [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1575578' date='Jun 18 2008, 08:02 PM']. . . remember that we're all Catholic, and have a big EastAndWest party! ()[/quote] I'm all for a big party. I just think the party will be more fun if the Latin bishops ignore my Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1575581' date='Jun 18 2008, 09:07 PM']We are in communion with each other, but the past forms part of who we are today, and so it cannot be forgotten. Certainly past wrongs should be forgiven, but never forgotten.[/quote] Of course I meant forgive rather than forget. Sorry. Still though... wouldn't you find it healthier in general if everyone were to be able to unequivocally leave these wrongs in the past (where they are, remain, and belong)? I'm sure that there were a lot of misunderstandings and problems from both sides, God knows, it happens all the time, but in the end, we're still all Catholic. Wouldn't you prefer to have the Eastern traditions to be as fully accepted and widely known as their Latin counterparts, rather than just 'tolerated'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1575562' date='Jun 18 2008, 10:44 PM']Well all I know is, like I said before, if priests could marry, I'd definitely be looking into the seminary right now. As it stands... I really hope to get married someday in the next ten years or less, and I feel more pulled towards that.[/quote] Perhaps you are called to the permanent diaconate? Married, but serving still as a deacon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote name='TeresaBenedicta' post='1575593' date='Jun 18 2008, 08:24 PM']Perhaps you are called to the permanent diaconate? Married, but serving still as a deacon?[/quote] That is a good suggestion. At least he should look into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1575592' date='Jun 18 2008, 08:24 PM']Of course I meant forgive rather than forget. Sorry. Still though... wouldn't you find it healthier in general if everyone were to be able to unequivocally leave these wrongs in the past (where they are, remain, and belong)? I'm sure that there were a lot of misunderstandings and problems from both sides, God knows, it happens all the time, but in the end, we're still all Catholic. Wouldn't you prefer to have the Eastern traditions to be as fully accepted and widely known as their Latin counterparts, rather than just 'tolerated'?[/quote] I prefer to fly under the radar. Seriously though, some Latins respond very poorly to the idea that there can be theological differences among the 23 [i]sui juris[/i] Catholic Churches. Edited June 19, 2008 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1575596' date='Jun 18 2008, 09:26 PM']That is a good suggestion. At least he should look into it.[/quote] I actually have looked into that. In my diocese and archdiocese the permanent diaconate is taken on in addition to a current career, and prospective permanent deacons should be at least thirty five. Got a ways to go before that's feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1575600' date='Jun 18 2008, 09:30 PM']I prefer to fly under the radar. Seriously though, some Latins respond very poorly to the idea that there can be theological differences among the 23 [i]sui juris[/i] Catholic Churches.[/quote] Hm... Well that's not an ideal situation. Of course... the theological differences must not be that great, and obviously are outweighed by the similarities. That's why we have full communion. I should probably find out more about the Eastern Catholic tradition in general, because as you can tell, I really don't know that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=34879"][u]East and West, Latin and Byzantine[/u][/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 Wow, that was really really detailed! Probably a little bit over my head, at least some of it. Luckily I have an excuse; high school. Plenty of time to learn. It seems, to one as uneducated as myself, that some of those main differences were really differences in emphasis rather than radically seperate beliefs. Some of them were even closer to semantic differences, at least from my perspective. Would I be incorrect in thinking this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1575629' date='Jun 18 2008, 09:02 PM']Would I be incorrect in thinking this?[/quote] Yes, in some cases that is true, but the Byzantine doctrine of divine simplicity is radically different from that held by the West, and the Eastern patristic understanding of predestination has nothing in common with the Augustinian view of that doctrine. So it does depend upon the doctrine under consideration. Edited June 19, 2008 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 Ok, that makes sense. That part of the post was the biggest portion that I just had a tough time understanding. I'm sure it means a lot more to the serious theologians... rather than ameteur net 'theologians' like myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Some of the differences are complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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