Atheism

[reyb]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1577902' date='Jun 20 2008, 07:57 PM']I think that catholics have good practices...so that makes me a new age athiest...big deal[/quote]
[indent]First thing first, because I want to know if we really understand each other. What is an athiest? (and please do not tell me to look for a dictionary. I just want to know it directly from you.)[/indent]

[Galloglasses]

That may be a little difficult for her to answer Reyb, I've stated before how most athiests can't agree on the definition. But yes, Autumn, what you idea of what an Athiest is would help us understand better.

Edited June 21, 2008 by Galloglasses

[Adrestia]

[quote name='peach_cube' post='1577941' date='Jun 20 2008, 07:57 PM']Since you are new to the whole atheism thing I will break your new found belief system down for you:

There is no God.

Humans are the result of evolution and the principles identified by Darwin.

In nature we do not describe the behaviors of animals as either good or bad. They are described as being helpful, detrimental, or neutral in the light of evolution.

Therefore, since humans are another type of animal brought forth only by evolution a humans behaviors cannot be judged good or bad.

As atheists in the past have argued based off of this logic you can deem those humans who are detrimental to the gene pool as "disposable." As they will surely not help bring about any further evolution.

Also, you should probably spell atheist correctly.[/quote]
This is not true.

"Atheism" = "does not believe in God"

There are moral atheists. Here's a primer on [b]Jainism[/b] from beliefnet.com:

[u]Numbers[/u][b]:[/b] One of the oldest religious traditions of India, Jainism has existed side by side with Hinduism throughout its long history. With fewer than 5 million adherents and comprising less than 1% the Indian population, Jainism has demonstrated a remarkable tenacity and endurance and continues to exert an influence far beyond its small numbers.

[u]Founder[/u][b]:[/b] Jainism (the name derives from a Sanskrit word meaning "follower of the Jina, or conqueror") was established in our era by Mahavira ("the Great Hero") in the [b]sixth century B.C.E.[/b] In fact, Mahavira is considered only the most recent in a list of 24 such teachers who brought Jainism into the world during previous great cosmic eras of time. These teachers, or "Tirthankaras," taught a path to religious awakening based on renouncing the world by practice of strict religious austerity. Mahavira [b]established a monastic community of both nuns and monks. This community is the oldest continually surviving monastic community in the world.[/b]

[u]Main Tenets[/u][b]:[/b] [b]Jains reject belief in a creator god[/b] and seek release from endless reincarnation through a life of strict self-denial. The title of Jina is given to those who are believed to have triumphed over all material existence. As all human activity accumulates karma, the force that perpetuates reincarnation, [b]the only way to free one's jiva, or soul, from the bondage of material existence is by reducing this activity through ascetic practice[/b]. In addition, Jainism places a special emphasis on ahimsa ("non-injury") to all living beings. The concern for life is extended to all creatures, even minute microbes that are not visible. [b]The Jain ideal is a mendicant ascetic who takes extreme measures to avoid injuring all creatures.[/b] Monks and nuns are sometimes seen with muslin cloths over their mouths to keep out flying insects, and they are enjoined to use small brooms to gently sweep away living creatures from their path, so as to not accidentally crush them.

[emphasis mine]

Edited June 24, 2008 by tgoldson

[peach_cube]

[quote name='tgoldson' post='1582054' date='Jun 24 2008, 07:41 PM']This is not true.

"Atheism" = "does not believe in God"

There are moral atheists. Here's a primer on [b]Jainism[/b] from beliefnet.com:

[u]Numbers[/u][b]:[/b] One of the oldest religious traditions of India, Jainism has existed side by side with Hinduism throughout its long history. With fewer than 5 million adherents and comprising less than 1% the Indian population, Jainism has demonstrated a remarkable tenacity and endurance and continues to exert an influence far beyond its small numbers.

[u]Founder[/u][b]:[/b] Jainism (the name derives from a Sanskrit word meaning "follower of the Jina, or conqueror") was established in our era by Mahavira ("the Great Hero") in the [b]sixth century B.C.E.[/b] In fact, Mahavira is considered only the most recent in a list of 24 such teachers who brought Jainism into the world during previous great cosmic eras of time. These teachers, or "Tirthankaras," taught a path to religious awakening based on renouncing the world by practice of strict religious austerity. Mahavira [b]established a monastic community of both nuns and monks. This community is the oldest continually surviving monastic community in the world.[/b]

[u]Main Tenets[/u][b]:[/b] [b]Jains reject belief in a creator god[/b] and seek release from endless reincarnation through a life of strict self-denial. The title of Jina is given to those who are believed to have triumphed over all material existence. As all human activity accumulates karma, the force that perpetuates reincarnation, [b]the only way to free one's jiva, or soul, from the bondage of material existence is by reducing this activity through ascetic practice[/b]. In addition, Jainism places a special emphasis on ahimsa ("non-injury") to all living beings. The concern for life is extended to all creatures, even minute microbes that are not visible. [b]The Jain ideal is a mendicant ascetic who takes extreme measures to avoid injuring all creatures.[/b] Monks and nuns are sometimes seen with muslin cloths over their mouths to keep out flying insects, and they are enjoined to use small brooms to gently sweep away living creatures from their path, so as to not accidentally crush them.

[emphasis mine][/quote]
They are essentially transtheisitc, neither theistic or atheistic.

Edited June 25, 2008 by peach_cube

[Adrestia]

[quote name='peach_cube' post='1582171' date='Jun 24 2008, 07:38 PM']They are essentially transtheisitc, neither theistic or atheistic.[/quote]
They define themselves as atheistic. I suppose if you limit the definition, you could say that they are wrong.

[Alycin]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1577919' date='Jun 20 2008, 08:24 PM']I'm still new at being athiest...its only been just over a week now. If catholics don't think its appropriate for an athiest to be on here, just say and I'll leave.[/quote]

Weird... you are much more submissive as an atheist than you were as a Catholic.

[JustJ]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1582325' date='Jun 24 2008, 10:29 PM']Weird... you are much more submissive as an atheist than you were as a Catholic.[/quote]
I was softer at first, too. I had no good reasons to firmly back up my arguments (and, in retrospect, it was dumb of me to openly accept any position prior to having a convincing argument for it). With religion, you had faith, and if you are told faith is a good thing, you can believe anything you want on your faith!

Quick jab at faith: I'm so glad we went into Iraq on faith that they had weapons of mass destruction! Oh wait a minute...

[JustJ]

[quote name='peach_cube' post='1574376' date='Jun 17 2008, 08:39 PM']When I was an atheist I was a poor one. I still believed in right and wrong, good and bad.[/quote]
Edit: (imagine this in a calm and snotty British accent) Oh my, what ever do you mean?

I believe in right and wrong. I believe in good and bad. How does that make me a poor atheist? I would argue that atheists who do not believe in any sense of right and wrong as poor atheists, ignoring the fact that we have these social constructs that we have developed not from god but from human interaction.

No. Seriously, just no. The first two sentences of the thread actually already made me very disinterested in bothering with you here, because you seem to think that the only way to be a "good atheist" is to be an immoral one, and as a moral atheist, I cannot disagree with you more.

Edited June 25, 2008 by JustJ

[JustJ]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1577632' date='Jun 20 2008, 02:24 PM']Here's a question.

Is it that Athiests don't believe in God?

Or do they just want there to be no God [i]to[/i] believe in?[/quote]
I don't believe there exists a god to believe in. This is not the same as not wanting a god to exist.

As much as I would like to believe that I'm rich and leading a good life, these things are not true. I don't get depressed, because I accept these facts and deal with it. Life goes on.

As much as I would like to believe that there was a god watching over me and the whole universe and protecting me from harm and had my best interests in mind and listened to my prayers, I see nothing to make me believe that this is true. Again, I accept the fact that there is no god and just move on.

[JustJ]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1577713' date='Jun 20 2008, 04:30 PM']But then why do they majority of Athiests seem obsessed with attacking religion or constantly questioning the religious?[/quote]
Because it's impossible to prove a negative. Instead, we can only tell you why your theories are wrong. The burden of proof is still on you.

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='JustJ' post='1582345' date='Jun 24 2008, 09:37 PM']Quick jab at faith: I'm so glad we went into Iraq on faith that they had weapons of mass destruction! Oh wait a minute... [/quote]

It wasn't a religious faith that made the US go into Iraq, so it's not a jab at us. Athiests have faith in things too, just not God.

[JustJ]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1577723' date='Jun 20 2008, 04:39 PM']Don't try to convert me. I've made my decision[/quote]
Wrong attitude. By closing your mind completely and accepting no alternative, you are in no way superior to the closed-minded, dogmatic religious.

You should welcome their attempts to convert you, looks at their arguments individually, and refute them to the best of your ability. Admit when you don't know, and then go find out. Make an effort to learn.

[JustJ]

[quote name='lilac_angel' post='1582376' date='Jun 24 2008, 10:53 PM']It wasn't a religious faith that made the US go into Iraq, so it's not a jab at us. Athiests have faith in things too, just not God.[/quote]
I would beg to differ: it is a jab at you just as much as it is a jab at anyone who takes anything on faith alone without proof, evidence, logic, or reasoning to support it.

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='JustJ' post='1582371' date='Jun 24 2008, 09:51 PM']Because it's impossible to prove a negative. Instead, we can only tell you why your theories are wrong. The burden of proof is still on you.[/quote]

No, Christians have no burden of proof. By definition, our God is unprovable. To demand proof in your narrow scientific view is unreasonable, to put it mildly. The "burden of proof" will always lie in those that put forth theories in the realm of science. To attempt to encapsulate God in the realm of science is an illogical trap that will never bear fruit. But we can poke holes in athiest's theories all we want and show that they're no better at disproving God than we are proving Him.

[lilac_angel]

[quote name='JustJ' post='1582381' date='Jun 24 2008, 09:57 PM']I would beg to differ: it is a jab at you just as much as it is a jab at anyone who takes anything on faith alone without proof, evidence, logic, or reasoning to support it.[/quote]

Well then I don't consider it a jab at me personally at all.