I Be Back!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1573770' date='Jun 17 2008, 11:14 AM']Well, you're already doing a fabulous job.[/quote]
If I'm being so mean, please report me. I'm just waiting to get a warning for simply disagreeing with you. There's a huge difference between being mean and calling you out.

[quote]Can't you honor the murdered? Forgive President Kennedy, may he rest in Peace, for not letting the Pope run Washington- which his political enemies accused him.[/quote]

Following his Catholic faith is not the same as taking political orders from the pope. Just because he was unjustly accused as a Catholic doesn't mean he should separate his faith from his life.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1573798' date='Jun 17 2008, 11:34 AM']No, but we can only assume.[/quote]
Actually, we can't. We have no right to assume someone is in heaven. If we assume a person is in heaven, then we neglect praying for that person's soul.

Assumptions are always bad. Except for the Blessed Virgin's.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1573844' date='Jun 17 2008, 12:29 PM']Actually, we can't. We have no right to assume someone is in heaven. If we assume a person is in heaven, then we neglect praying for that person's soul.

Assumptions are always bad. Except for the Blessed Virgin's. [/quote]


Actually on this point he can if he wants to. If any individual wants to believe that a particular person is in heaven, they have that right. Point in fact that Pope John Paul II has not been sainted yet plenty of people confer the title of John Paul the Great upon him. Cardinal McCarrick talked about Tim Russerts death and that he was confident that "he was in the arms of God" pretty much inferring that Russert made it through purgatory.

But then again you have me on ignore

[Alycin]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1573888' date='Jun 17 2008, 01:12 PM']Actually on this point he can if he wants to. If any individual wants to believe that a particular person is in heaven, they have that right. Point in fact that Pope John Paul II has not been sainted yet plenty of people confer the title of John Paul the Great upon him. Cardinal McCarrick talked about Tim Russerts death and that he was confident that "he was in the arms of God" pretty much inferring that Russert made it through purgatory.

But then again you have me on ignore[/quote]

Why do so many people have you on ignore? Are you a lot more mild now than you used to be or something?

[prose]

I am surprised.. I thought you had all of us on ignore!!

[Jaime]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1573933' date='Jun 17 2008, 02:05 PM']Why do so many people have you on ignore? Are you a lot more mild now than you used to be or something?[/quote]

good lord vader, who knows?

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1573952' date='Jun 17 2008, 07:27 PM']good lord vader, who knows?[/quote]
I might have to use that phrase sometime.

[XIX]

Only if I can use "comparing apples to quarks."

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='XIX' post='1573962' date='Jun 17 2008, 07:38 PM']Only if I can use "comparing apples to quarks."[/quote]
Ooh, that's a good one, too.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1573888' date='Jun 17 2008, 01:12 PM']Actually on this point he can if he wants to. If any individual wants to believe that a particular person is in heaven, they have that right. Point in fact that Pope John Paul II has not been sainted yet plenty of people confer the title of John Paul the Great upon him. Cardinal McCarrick talked about Tim Russerts death and that he was confident that "he was in the arms of God" pretty much inferring that Russert made it through purgatory.

But then again you have me on ignore[/quote]
No, I don't have you on ignore. Never have. I've just blocked your PMs.

Anyway, my point wasn't against poetic expressions of a person's sanctity, my point was that we really can't go around calling uncanonized people "saints." As for the title of "the Great," that really doesn't necessitate sainthood, even though all "greats" happen to be saints. I pray for the soul of Pope John Paul II...I think we'd be foolish not to...that's not to say he's not in heaven, it's just to say that we shouldn't assume. I have no doubt that if he's not, he will be, but I'm not going to say that he already is.

As for Tim Russert, I don't know much about him, but I don't think that saying "he was in the arms of God" means that he's in heaven. We can be "in the arms of God" while alive on earth, or in purgatory for that matter.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1574000' date='Jun 17 2008, 03:45 PM']No, I don't have you on ignore. Never have. I've just blocked your PMs.

Anyway, my point wasn't against poetic expressions of a person's sanctity, my point was that we really can't go around calling uncanonized people "saints." As for the title of "the Great," that really doesn't necessitate sainthood, even though all "greats" happen to be saints. I pray for the soul of Pope John Paul II...I think we'd be foolish not to...that's not to say he's not in heaven, it's just to say that we shouldn't assume. I have no doubt that if he's not, he will be, but I'm not going to say that he already is.

As for Tim Russert, I don't know much about him, but I don't think that saying "he was in the arms of God" means that he's in heaven. We can be "in the arms of God" while alive on earth, or in purgatory for that matter.[/quote]

Well break out your warning stick son because I'm about to publicly criticize a mod. I think that's lame.

Oh and I misquoted the cardinal he said " I know he's gone home" in the interview. Home is not here nor is it purgatory. So the Cardinal apparently believes that Russert is in heaven. I don't know if he is or isn't but it certainly demonstrates that if one wants to believe that someone is in heaven, its within our purview to do so.

I don't know if kennedy is in heaven hell or purgatory. I think catholicnsd is being an ass. But if he wants to believe kennedy is in heaven, he has a right to his opinion. You're wrong to criticize him for it.

[Autumn Dusk]

meh...heaven is made up...so anyone you want could be there.

[rachael]

Dear Lord.

Edited June 17, 2008 by rachael

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1573844' date='Jun 17 2008, 11:29 AM']Assumptions are always bad. Except for the Blessed Virgin's. [/quote]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1574057' date='Jun 17 2008, 05:11 PM']Well break out your warning stick son because I'm about to publicly criticize a mod. I think that's lame.

Oh and I misquoted the cardinal he said " I know he's gone home" in the interview. Home is not here nor is it purgatory. So the Cardinal apparently believes that Russert is in heaven. I don't know if he is or isn't but it certainly demonstrates that if one wants to believe that someone is in heaven, its within our purview to do so.

I don't know if kennedy is in heaven hell or purgatory. I think catholicnsd is being an ass. But if he wants to believe kennedy is in heaven, he has a right to his opinion. You're wrong to criticize him for it.[/quote]

hot stuff, you're taking me just a little too seriously.

First, it's not a violation of phorum guidelines to criticize a mod's theological beliefs or opinions. That's worlds away from the kind of criticism the mods all agree dust (the ultra-handsome) means in the guidelines. I spoke on this a few weeks ago.

Second, I still don't think that the Cardinal necessarily meant to say Russert is in heaven. It's pretty common to say, "I know he's gone home," when someone dies...it's not meant to be theologically nuanced. I think it would be a mistake to interpret the Cardinal's words as being a theological statement in any direction (which means, by the way, that I'm not excluding the possibility that the Cardinal meant exactly what you say he meant).

However, I wasn't trying to come down as some sort of theological enforcer. I was simply trying to make an argument against throwing around the term "saint." If you want to think that's a big enough deal to argue over it, that's fine, but quite frankly, I don't.