Tax Cuts

[ironmonk]

Some have stated that tax cuts would devastate the economy.

This is a lie by the media and the crooked politicians that want to keep BIG government's thumb on the poor man.

History has proven that tax cuts help the economy. Every time we see a donkey party president increase taxes, within four years the economy hurts, and the people loose jobs. They don't care about the people, they only care about their power. They use the poor man to keep their high paying jobs and their outrageous pension plan. They know that they will not be affected like most Americans will be.

There is a huge problem with certain programs in the government throwing money around, it's time that the government tighten it's belt and let the people have the power that the donkey party claims it has.

Not to mention, the donkey party's majority is made up of special interest groups that have tunnel vision for their own causes... kill the babies, we don't need morals, take God out of schools - BUT hey, there is "Free" speech - AS LONG AS it doesn't offend me, pervert the kids you let live, marry the abominable but call it Holy, steal from the rich give to the poor - so what if God said no, tax the rich heavy to fill our pockets so what if people loose jobs they will have to come to us to eat and people do not bite the hand that feeds, etc...

Granted, there are some good people in the donkey party, but they are not in power, they have been fooled and equate today's donkey party to the people's party of the 40's... Today's people's party is the Republican. The donkey's know this and that is why they have to blatantly lie about Republican plans.

Republican plans help the majority, from rich to poor... we see problems in local governments who are mostly ruled by the donkey party because of high local taxes. Many towns that have key factories that leave and the town is then thrown into turmoil because of high local taxes on those factories.

The donkey party has no problem with biting the hand that feeds the people because the donkey party wants to keep the people under it's power.

The bottom line is that tax cuts are to help the economy NOT balance the federal budget. When people get tax cuts they spend more and then everyone gets benefit from it. From the little guy to the government. History proves it. Logic and a little knowledge prove it. Tax cuts help the economy and BIG government hurts the economy and the people. The fact remains that life is the number one priority, so all the illogical theories to not vote for Bush because Bush is given the people back money are tossed to the side by the real Christian, because no Christian can, without sin, vote for a baby killer when someone who has been working for the unborn is running against the evil doer.

It's sickening to think that someone who refers to them self as a Christian would vote any other way.

Interesting links and facts:

http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/2001Jan/jan22lif.htm

http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/2000Jun/jun14lif.htm

http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/2000Aug/aug23lif.htm

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/EM801.cfm

http://www.mackinac.org/article.asp?ID=3398

Some say "Right to Life" is more than just abortion... I say:

I agree, right to life does mean much more than abortion, but weighing how many innocent lives die in the womb (1,300,000) every year compared to those who are executed, the babies have to come first.

1.3 Million babies killed each year, abortion has been spoiling our society for the last thirty years. More babies have died because of abortion since 1973, than in all the wars in the last 300 years.

The average number of executions in the US since 1976 is 29 per year (a total of 820 since 1976).

43,495,845 vs. 820....

I am against capital punishment, but looking at the numbers, which is the greater loss? It is very sad that anyone die at the hands of our government, but many of these people are not totally innocent, whereas all babies are totally innocent.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/SINTOVOT.htm

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sec...t2art5.htm#2270

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2.htm#2240

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2.htm#2242

http://www.priestsforlife.org/

I believe that the lives of the innocent babies outweigh all other issues (i.e. econ, taxes, etc...).

It's time to stop being selfish and put the lives of others before your own and what you "think" is the right way to handle a problem in regards to taxes, economy, etc...

The BIG issue is the American Holocaust that is going on. Millions of innocent lives are being destroyed... and you are complaining about petty things such as giving people back the money that they worked for?

Let Caesar do what he wishes with what is his. You should be worried and working toward saving what is Gods! - unborn babies.

It is a sad shame that someone would call themselves Christian, especally Catholic, and put any other matter about government infront of the lives of innocent babies.

Your Servant in Christ,

ironmonk

[smeagol]

ok, i'm only going to reply to the "tax cuts" part since that's what the thread's titled.

Journalist Mickey Kaus recently spoke with a senior federal official who said, "I've never seen an administration spend money like this... The money's flying out the door. I can barely keep up with it... They give money away on phone calls. No documents. No budget. It's the worst I've ever seen..."

Fareed Zakaria (Newsweek)

the tax cuts widen the rich poor gap. the rich are paying the least taxes they have for the past 50 years. the logic that it frees up spending to pump back into the economy doesn't help small business owners, it helps rich entrepreneurs.

Almost two-thirds of the bill’s tax cuts will go to the best-off ten percent of taxpayers, and well over half will go to the top five percent”. “While the bottom half gets an average tax break of $19,” the research continues, “the more well-off taxpayers get tens of thousands back”.

Bob McIntyre (CTJ)

if you really want to help the common man, you would vote to repeal the tax cuts, but only for the rich. that's what kerry wants to do. let the people whose annual income is less than $200,000 to keep their tax cuts, but tax the wealthy and close the loopholes that corporations use to evade taxes by moving jobs overseas. if you really had the interest of making the common man's economic life better, you'd vote for kerry.

2.9 million jobs lost Bureau of labor statistics.

annual deficit to exceed $400 billion for the next decade CBPP

can you just ignore this deficit. how much sense does it make to increase spending and decrease the intake of funds the govt takes in. sooner or later, this will come back to haunt us.

And please don't tell me the tax cuts are working. Of course they're working! If you put this much stimulus into our economy — three tax cuts, loose monetary policy and out-of-control spending — it will produce a boom. Eat 10 chocolate bars at once and you'll also get a rush. But at what long-term cost?

...This is so irresponsible and it will end in tears. Remember, says Mr. Peterson, long-term tax cuts without long-term spending cuts are not tax cuts. They are "tax deferrals" — with the burden to be borne by your future or your kid's future.

Thomas Friedman (New York Times)

The fact remains that life is the number one priority, so all the illogical theories to not vote for Bush because Bush is given the people back money are tossed to the side by the real Christian, because no Christian can, without sin, vote for a baby killer when someone who has been working for the unborn is running against the evil doer.

It's sickening to think that someone who refers to them self as a Christian would vote any other way.

Bush is banking on the fact that people will think this way. i'm not going to let bush throw our country down the crapper just because he claims to be prolife. there's more lurking beneath the surface. to not think for oneself and consider the whole picture is illogical and sickening to me.

[Edited by Ice Princess: Image removed. You stated your opinion, the "campaign slogan" is unnecessary and borderline slanderous.]

[M.SIGGA]

It's sickening to think that someone who refers to them self as a Christian would vote any other way.

Monk it's quotes like these with an underline-majority agreement that make me really appreciate Phatmass -_-

I can't debate this anymore, but I'll just say I have to disagree with your republicanism other than the abortion issue. Blanket statements like this are really judgemental and are offensive - implying I'm a hypocrite charlatan swindler who is masquerading as a Christian who is either a wolf or someone fooled by wolves in disguise.

Based on what you have already posted, this probably means nothing to you, but can you ever consider that some folks just see things from a different point-of-view?

All 'donkey party' members aren't pro-choice and are usually democrats because some aspect of the republican platform ends up with them getting shafted. The real world is not as clear-cut as you already posted about everyone being happy, etc after Bush enacts one of his policies.

I don't even know how to respond, I'm almost speechless.

I'm guessing that's your new daughter in the pic and you are very lucky and have a really beautiful kid.

Only respond if you want too. Peace.

[ironmonk]

The point is that EVERYTHING dealing with the upcoming election is second place to saving the unborn. 43 million deaths.

Many Bishops have been publicly excommunicating some politicians that try to claim that they are Catholic when they support abortion. The Church teaches that it's a sin for a Catholic to vote for an abortion candidate when there is a pro-life candidate running against the abortionist.

Ref:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/SINTOVOT.htm

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sec...t2art5.htm#2270

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2.htm#2240

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2.htm#2242

http://www.priestsforlife.org/

Someone who votes for a pro-abortion candidate when a pro-life candidate is running has a lot to learn about Christianity.

It all comes down to priorities.

Financial problems are nothing compared to saving the lives of millions of innocent babies. Spritual needs are greater than those of physical needs.

Christian logic dictates that we must first save the lives of the innocent, then we can determine what needs to come next.

-ironmonk

[ironmonk]

Thirty-four million working families will receive an average of $1,549 in tax relief each year.

http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/js410.htm

FROM THE OFFICE OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS

May 22, 2003

JS-410

Effects of Major Individual Income Tax Relief

provisions in Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003

In 2003, 91 million taxpayers will receive, on average, a tax cut of $1,126 under the Jobs and Growth Act of 2003.

• 68 million women will see their taxes decline, on average, by $1,338.

• 45 million married couples will receive average tax cuts of $1,786.

• 34 million families with children will benefit from an average tax cut of $1,549.

• 6 million single women with children will receive an average tax cut of $558.

• 12 million elderly taxpayers will receive an average tax cut of $1,401.

• 23 million small business owners will receive tax cuts averaging $2,209.

• 3 million individuals and families will have their income tax liability completely eliminated by the Act.

Each of the provisions in the Jobs and Growth Act of 2003 will benefit millions of taxpayers.

• Accelerating the 2004 and 2006 rate cuts in 2003 will provide 32 million taxpayers with an average tax cut of $1,060.

• Accelerating the expansion of the 10 percent rate bracket will reduce taxes for 69 million taxpayers, on average, by $76.

• Enacting marriage penalty relief in 2003 will reduce taxes for 34 million married couples by an average of $589.

• Increasing the child tax credit to $1,000 in 2003 will provide 26 million families with an average tax cut of $623.

• Lowering the tax rates on capital gains and dividend income will reduce taxes for 26 million taxpayers with income from these two sources by an average of $798. Among those with tax cuts will be 7 million elderly taxpayers whose taxes will decline, on average, by $1,088.

Background

This analysis is based on the following provisions:

• Acceleration of the 2004 and 2006 rate cuts to 2003.

• Reduction in marriage penalties through the acceleration of increases in the standard deduction from 2009 to 2003 and the width of the 15 percent rate bracket for joint filers from 2008 to 2003.

• Acceleration of the increase in the width of the 10 percent rate bracket for single and joint filers from 2008 to 2003.

• Acceleration of the increase to $1,000 in the child tax credit from 2010 to 2003 (except for advanced rebate).

• Lowering the tax rate on dividends and capital gains to 15 percent (5 percent for the lowest two rate brackets).

• An increase in the alternative minimum tax (AMT) exemption level.

•

The analysis above does not include the effects of two business provisions in the Act:

• Small businesses will benefit from an increase in the maximum amount of investment in equipment that they can expense from $25,000 to $100,000.

• Businesses will benefit from an increase in the first-year bonus depreciation deduction from 30 percent to 50 percent for qualified investments.

Office of Tax Policy

May 22, 2003

[M.SIGGA]

What specific programs and tax funds are being cut and where is all this money comming from?

[M.SIGGA]

I mean the smaller ones, not these:

This analysis is based on the following provisions:

• Acceleration of the 2004 and 2006 rate cuts to 2003.

• Reduction in marriage penalties through the acceleration of increases in the standard deduction from 2009 to 2003 and the width of the 15 percent rate bracket for joint filers from 2008 to 2003.

• Acceleration of the increase in the width of the 10 percent rate bracket for single and joint filers from 2008 to 2003.

• Acceleration of the increase to $1,000 in the child tax credit from 2010 to 2003 (except for advanced rebate).

• Lowering the tax rate on dividends and capital gains to 15 percent (5 percent for the lowest two rate brackets).

• An increase in the alternative minimum tax (AMT) exemption level.

•

The analysis above does not include the effects of two business provisions in the Act:

• Small businesses will benefit from an increase in the maximum amount of investment in equipment that they can expense from $25,000 to $100,000.

• Businesses will benefit from an increase in the first-year bonus depreciation deduction from 30 percent to 50 percent for qualified investments.

[M.SIGGA]

I should have initially been more straight forward because I was alluding to the state tax cuts. I provided links because I don't want to text dump all this information, but how do you expain this and continue to justify Bush's tax plan? I think Bush's plan looks great on paper, but it doesn't adress the working class majority who are falling in between the cracks. I think it is really faithful and noble that many Catholics are forfeiting their Constitutional right to chose a candidate for the commands of the Church and the Pope, but just because he is pro-life doesn't mean everything else he has to say is a good idea.

http://www.cbpp.org/12-22-03health-pr.htm

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/debt0903.pdf

http://www.cbpp.org/10-22-03sfp2.htm

[ironmonk]

I should have initially been more straight forward because I was alluding to the state tax cuts. I provided links because I don't want to text dump all this information, but how do you expain this and continue to justify Bush's tax plan? I think Bush's plan looks great on paper, but it doesn't adress the working class majority who are falling in between the cracks. I think it is really faithful and noble that many Catholics are forfeiting their Constitutional right to chose a candidate for the commands of the Church and the Pope, but just because he is pro-life doesn't mean everything else he has to say is a good idea.

http://www.cbpp.org/12-22-03health-pr.htm

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/debt0903.pdf

http://www.cbpp.org/10-22-03sfp2.htm

I'm not saying that everything he does or says is a good idea...

I'm saying that the most important thing that should overshadow everything else for the Christian is that he is trying to save the lives of millions of innocent babies.

There are many things that I think need to change, money is just paper... God comes first.

The money belongs to the government...

What belongs to God? Lives.

What's our priority Mammon (money) or God? We cannot serve two masters.

Who is our master?

There are some major issues that I have with the way things are, but they are not a priority... the innocent lives of babies are. Once they are safe, then and only then will I spend more time even worrying about the things that deal with money.

In Christ,

ironmonk

[M.SIGGA]

then why didn't you just make this a pro-life thread if it's all about chosing life? Also please read the links that I posted because they show what Bush doesn't talk about when explaining the benefits of his tax plan.

[ironmonk]

then why didn't you just make this a pro-life thread if it's all about chosing life? Also please read the links that I posted because they show what Bush doesn't talk about when explaining the benefits of his tax plan.

Because I wanted to make a point about the tax cuts not worth being a reason not to vote for Life...

Some show reason to believe it bad, some show good... I think they will do more good, but it really doesn't matter with this race when weighed with the main issue.

I believe that with the two people that actually have a chance to win it comes down to:

Do we vote for Life or death?

If kerry gets in, nothing he has said that he believes are would do can be taken at face value because he has proven himself to be less than honest. Babies will have no chance and with the way things are currently going, he would bring our soceity to it's knees in regards to morals.

Bush is honest, he says what he believes and believes what he says. It's not his fault if someone tells him something that is not 100% true. He might not have the best answers, but he is actually trying.

Kerry tells people what he thinks they want to hear. I've seen kerry contradict himself many times, I've never seen Bush contradict himself.

No one's perfect, but when running a country, character has a lot to do with it.

God Bless,

ironmonk

[smeagol]

Bush is honest, he says what he believes and believes what he says...

but does he DO what he SAYS ? that's the more important question. and bush falls short of this. thus we will not get my vote.

Kerry tells people what he thinks they want to hear. I've seen kerry contradict himself many times, I've never seen Bush contradict himself.

rtsp://a1155.v10211a.c10211.g.vr.akamaistream.net/ondemand/7/1155/10211/v0001/johnkerry.download.akamai.com/10211/022704_word_real_dsl.rm

[Aloysius]

i believe that SEPTEMBER 11 may have affected the economy a TAD, you know, the economic center of the world being destroyed... umm... i'm sure that was bush's fault (God help us, if you say it is i'll havta give ya a knuckle sandwich to the FACE) and i'm sure that didn't affect those numbers in the slightest. <_<

[IcePrincessKRS]

Someone who votes for a pro-abortion candidate when a pro-life candidate is running has a lot to learn about Christianity.

It all comes down to priorities.

Financial problems are nothing compared to saving the lives of millions of innocent babies. Spritual needs are greater than those of physical needs.

Christian logic dictates that we must first save the lives of the innocent, then we can determine what needs to come next.

On this point da Monk is right. We have a moral responsibility to vote Pro-life. Its a sin to vote otherwise. If there is no candidate other than Bush with a reasonable chance of beating Kerry you have the MORAL responsibility to vote for Bush. This isn't just a matter of "I like/I don't like", and I really am sorry that you guys don't like him. I'm not saying that I agree 100% with everything Bush says either, but he's a helluva lot better than Kerry.

[IcePrincessKRS]

Now, I'm goin' to bed. You all better behave and keep the Debate Table nice and friendly or I'll have to come in and clean up tomorrow, and if I have to do that I won't be a happy camper! :P