HisChildForever Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 What if you began dating a woman, and you two had practically everything in common, and you really saw the light of Christ radiating from her, and she had intelligence and kindness and charity, and then - one day, when she's comfortable with it - she admits that she lost her virginity a couple of years ago, but has since repented of it, and has been chaste ever since? If God can forgive her, why can't you? Let's not forget that Paul imprisoned and murdered Christians. And how he's one of the most celebrated people in our Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 [quote name='Norseman82' post='1571781' date='Jun 15 2008, 01:45 PM']I think they're out there, but people need to get a renewed sense of "looking out for one's own", so to speak. Which is another reason I voted no - there might be a female virgin out there that may have been counting on me, and I would be letting her down. Additionally, it's sad to think that we've given up and accepted promiscuity as as the norm for our culture and are lowering our standards and will not back up those who will not lower their standards. We have awesome discretionary power at our disposal, and if we don't use it to start demanding "equal yoking" I seriously question whether or not we will turn around this promiscous society or at least create a haven of comfort for those who are not.[/quote] Dude. You don't marry the person she was five years ago. You marry the person she is now. If she had sex and she hasn't repented, or if she still thinks that premarital sex is okay, then of course you don't marry her. But if she has changed her views and she believes in chastity now, then that's a completely different story. Marrying a repentant sinner is not really different from marrying a virgin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 [quote name='picchick' post='1571790' date='Jun 15 2008, 01:02 PM']You are right. You would be on different levels. But can you honestly deny marrying a woman who might have made a mistake in her past life? What if she deeply regrets that decision and decided that she would be celibate until marriage from that point on? I just do not think that it is right throw the baby out with the bath water. I think you need to judge on a base by base case. If a guy asked me out and he "did" every one of his girlfriends and I was just another target than dating wouldn't even be an option. However, if he made a mistake in the past, then has been celibate ever since and remains celibate during our relationship, and if God has forgiven him his sin, who I am to say no?[/quote] Forgiveness does not necessarily restore compatibility. Two different things. One does not need to have or continue a relationship with someone in order to prove they forgive them. [quote name='picchick' post='1571312' date='Jun 14 2008, 06:30 PM']I have made some too. Maybe it wasn't having sex before but they were still mistakes that he will have to forgive.[/quote] [quote name='picchick' post='1571790' date='Jun 15 2008, 01:02 PM']Every one of us has committed sins. Some more grevious than others. My future husband is going to someday face the sins that I have committed even though I have repented of them. He is going to have to forgive me as a person before he is able to accept everything of me.[/quote] I guess it all depends on which sins will come back to haunt and cause the most pain in the marriage. I have read in another Catholic forum postings of people who still feel cheated because they were virgins on their wedding night but their spouses were not. What gives any of us the right to fault someone for wantiing to avoid such pain in amarriage? Also, I need to correc something you sad earlier: [quote name='picchick' post='1571312' date='Jun 14 2008, 06:30 PM']I am not going to turn down someone who God has given me because of past mistakes.[/quote] At the end of the day, it is [i]your discretionary power[/i] and free will that God has given you and how [i]you[/i] use it to reward someone by marrying them that determines whom you marry. If I were to use my discretionary power to choose a non-virgin over a virgin, that would be a slap in the face to the virgin by telling her, "sorry, I'm valuing and rewarding someone who does not obey the rules over someone who does. All your efforts were a waste." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 [quote name='XIX' post='1571857' date='Jun 15 2008, 02:26 PM']Dude. You don't marry the person she was five years ago. You marry the person she is now. If she had sex and she hasn't repented, or if she still thinks that premarital sex is okay, then of course you don't marry her. But if she has changed her views and she believes in chastity now, then that's a completely different story. Marrying a repentant sinner is not really different from marrying a virgin.[/quote] Still does not make them compatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachael Posted June 15, 2008 Author Share Posted June 15, 2008 You're not much about forgiveness, are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 I know for a fact that many women enter religious life and are not virgins. They have made horrible mistakes in the past, and some of them weren't even into religion and experienced a conversion before entering religious life. If Jesus marries non-virgins, who am I to reject a man who isn't a virgin? I am marrying Jesus though....so....I don't have to really worry too much about this question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1571851' date='Jun 15 2008, 02:18 PM']What if you began dating a woman, and you two had practically everything in common, and you really saw the light of Christ radiating from her, and she had intelligence and kindness and charity, and then - one day, when she's comfortable with it - she admits that she lost her virginity a couple of years ago, but has since repented of it, and has been chaste ever since? If God can forgive her, why can't you?[/quote] Still does not make us compatible. [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1571851' date='Jun 15 2008, 02:18 PM']Let's not forget that Paul imprisoned and murdered Christians. And how he's one of the most celebrated people in our Church.[/quote] But the early church also did not trust Paul (Acts 9:26), and i wonder if that is why he spent time in Arabia (Gal. 1:17). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 (edited) Gosh, Norseman, it's a good thing you've never sinned....oh, wait. How would you like it if someone wouldn't marry you because of a sin you committed in the past, which you deeply regretted? Edited June 15, 2008 by Noel's angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 [quote name='Norseman82' post='1571845' date='Jun 15 2008, 03:13 PM']And even if it did historically happen, it could have just been commanded to Hosea and not ot us. The main point remains is that it is an allegory to God's relatiuonship to Israel. Where did Christ command virgins to marry non-virgins in order to prove forgiveness? Forgiveness of sins does not erase the temporal consequences of those sins. Confession does not erase STDs, or undo a pregnancy, or reassemble an aborted baby that is in a million pieces in a dumpster in the alley in back of an abortion clinic and bring him/her back to life. Similarly, it does not go back in time and undo the romp in the hay and give the person back his/her virginity; that 100% is gone forever. He/she will not be giving the same 100% back to any virgin who marries him/her.[/quote] Using your logic, nobody who has ever broken the sixth commandment should ever consider entering into marriage. I know that's not what you are trying to say, but it's the natural conclusion of your own logic. The person who struggles with pornography is in the same boat at the person who isn't a virgin? They are all sexual sins; varying degrees of the same sin, of course, but still the same sin. So if you have ever tarnished your purity in the course of your lifetime, you shouldn't get married because you'll be causing your spouse to embrace the sin of marrying a non-virgin. If my post misrepresents your own post, please point out the inconsistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 [quote name='rachael' post='1571862' date='Jun 15 2008, 02:32 PM']You're not much about forgiveness, are you?[/quote] As I said previously, you can forgive someone without having or continuing a relationship with them. Thios isn't all about forgiveness; it is about compatibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 [quote name='XIX' post='1571869' date='Jun 15 2008, 02:36 PM']Using your logic, nobody who has ever broken the sixth commandment should ever consider entering into marriage. I know that's not what you are trying to say, but it's the natural conclusion of your own logic. The person who struggles with pornography is in the same boat at the person who isn't a virgin? They are all sexual sins; varying degrees of the same sin, of course, but still the same sin. So if you have ever tarnished your purity in the course of your lifetime, you shouldn't get married because you'll be causing your spouse to embrace the sin of marrying a non-virgin. If my post misrepresents your own post, please point out the inconsistency.[/quote] I never said that non-virgins are not free to marry. They are compatible with fellow non-virgins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1571864' date='Jun 15 2008, 08:32 PM']I know for a fact that many women enter religious life and are not virgins. They have made horrible mistakes in the past, and some of them weren't even into religion and experienced a conversion before entering religious life. If Jesus marries non-virgins, who am I to reject a man who isn't a virgin? I am marrying Jesus though....so....I don't have to really worry too much about this question... [/quote] Norseman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachael Posted June 15, 2008 Author Share Posted June 15, 2008 No, it is about forgiveness. People make mistakes and sin. If someone you loved deeply didn't want to marry you because of a mistake you thought you made up for, you're saying you would alright with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachael Posted June 15, 2008 Author Share Posted June 15, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1571864' date='Jun 15 2008, 02:32 PM']I know for a fact that many women enter religious life and are not virgins. They have made horrible mistakes in the past, and some of them weren't even into religion and experienced a conversion before entering religious life. If Jesus marries non-virgins, who am I to reject a man who isn't a virgin? I am marrying Jesus though....so....I don't have to really worry too much about this question... [/quote] And I know of a priest who wasn't a virgin when he entered the priesthood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 [quote name='Norseman82' post='1571876' date='Jun 15 2008, 02:39 PM']I never said that non-virgins are not free to marry. They are compatible with fellow non-virgins.[/quote] LOL. Good luck finding someone who doesn't have a history of breaking the sixth commandment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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