ardillacid Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 [quote name='Kitty' post='1568841' date='Jun 11 2008, 09:09 PM']Dumb.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aalpha1989 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I can't believe you guys are serious. Come on. Even so called Church militants???? I've known about this for a while. IT IS A GOOD THING. It is extremely sad that these people cannot marry, yes, but if there is no way for the couple to be physically united then neither can they be spiritually united (in that way). It is tragic that it has to be this way, but it does. It's a cross that he SHOULD have bourne, instead of turning on the Church and having a civil ceremony instead. MARRIAGE MUST BE CONSUMATED IN ORDER FOR IT TO BE MARRIAGE. If it cannot be consummated, then annulment is the right way to go because it was never marriage in the first place. Impotency is not the same as being sterile, either. If a couple can consumate the marriage but cannot have children then the marriage is legit. It is just the fact htat it cannot be consummated. I'm extremely disappointed in many who have posted above me, and I am sorry for being so harsh. It just shocked me and I really think that if you have the flag you need to demonstrate a greater fidelity and represent the Church's position on such things. This issue is about the theology behind marriage, and what marriage actually is. If you start to question this most basic part of marriage, then who is to say that other parts of it can't be questioned as well? Marrige is, most basically, an instution for family. It is different if the marriage has already been consummated and the man becomes impotent. the marriage has then already been consummated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly3278 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Wow. It is really sad that it must be this way for them but if this is the way it must be then this is the way it must be. I will always follow the Catholic Church's teachings on things, including this thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishSalesian Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 [quote name='desertwoman' post='1568827' date='Jun 11 2008, 10:00 PM']Wha? So if you are 65 and finally meet someone, and of course a woman is no longer able to have children at that time of her life... would she be denied marriage as well?[/quote] No, they would not be denied marriage, i think, because in order for the marriage to take place, you must be open to life. You do not have to be able to produce children, but be open to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prose Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I simply said I feel like this is wrong. The last time I checked, the Catholic Church didn't make decisions based on my feelings. If they do, be afraid, be very afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhawk Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 From what I have been told, you cannot receive the sacrament of Holy Orders either if you are impotent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1568820' date='Jun 11 2008, 06:54 PM']I dealt with a case like this, and the young man's doctor talked to the priest. There are electrical stimulation procedures that can be done in the doctor's office that allow a paralyzed man to provide a specimen for IVF purposes, that can also be used for the purposes of consummation. It's actually men who have lower breaks that have the most trouble because they end up having permanent catheters. It might not be the most ideal situation for a wedding night, but it does satisfy the requirements of canon law, and it only takes once.[/quote] +J.M.J.+ the Church (rightly so) is against IVF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 They weren't using the procedure for IVF, just to consummate the marriage. They planned to adopt children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1569156' date='Jun 11 2008, 10:03 PM']They weren't using the procedure for IVF, just to consummate the marriage. They planned to adopt children.[/quote] +J.M.J.+ okay, gotcha, i was confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I had not heard of this teaching until now. Oh well, up it goes on the "Do not agree with" shelf, next to the teaching on gay marriage. Sorry, but I think this particular teaching is absolutely ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 [quote name='Greyhawk' post='1569061' date='Jun 11 2008, 11:17 PM']From what I have been told, you cannot receive the sacrament of Holy Orders either if you are impotent.[/quote] hmm...haven't heard that...can you source? [quote name='Kitty' post='1569267' date='Jun 12 2008, 12:39 AM']I had not heard of this teaching until now. Oh well, up it goes on the "Do not agree with" shelf, next to the teaching on gay marriage. Sorry, but I think this particular teaching is absolutely ridiculous.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCid Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 (edited) I must admit, I knew of this teaching, but thought it applied only too natural impotence. For a situation with an accident, I have heard of the method CatherineM described and I wonder if they sought it out. As for this explicit case, I would wonder if it was 100% impossible for the man to participate in the 'maritial embrace'. If it is the case, then I think it makes sense. Though, I would assume that the article would not have all the facts due to the sake of privacy and we must always give the Bishop the benefit of the doubt. Though, I'd think again why not consider a Josephite (sp?) marriage then. Edited June 12, 2008 by CatholicCid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 [quote name='desertwoman' post='1568827' date='Jun 11 2008, 09:00 PM']Wha? So if you are 65 and finally meet someone, and of course a woman is no longer able to have children at that time of her life... would she be denied marriage as well?[/quote] Clarification: "impotent" means inability to have sex, not inability to conceive. That's why the ability to adopt has nothing to do with this case, because this isn't about fertility, it's about sexual capability. If two can't become one physically, then two can't become one sacramentally. That's why it can't happen. And in response to Kitty, who said it was dumb, it's not dumb...it makes good sense. If you can't have sex, you can't have a true marriage. I hope this helps. God bless, Micah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I'm sorry, but can't the Church not place stipulations on one thing? It seems that it does this a lot, especially in terms of sex. I'm in full support of its decisions, but seriously, there is a point where you can go a tad too far.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 [quote name='Raphael' post='1569304' date='Jun 12 2008, 12:57 AM']And in response to Kitty, who said it was dumb, it's not dumb...it makes good sense. If you can't have sex, you can't have a true marriage.[/quote] Well, it makes 0 sense to me. And besides, why does the church want to pry into this man's sexual capabilities? If this couple came to the bishop and asked to be married, did the bishop ask them if they could have sex? Isn't that an invasion of privacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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