cmotherofpirl Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 What makes one "saved" is their works of charity. Being forgiven is simply God calling us. And it is nice to know that we are forgiven. You can be forgiven and still be in hell. We are saved by our faithfulness shown by our charity. God calls everyone always. We have the choice to answer because we have free will. We are not forgiven because God calls us, we are forgiven if we have repented and made satisfaction for our sins. Hell is a choice to reject God. Forgiven people have not rejected God, but embraced Him. They are not in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted March 3, 2004 Author Share Posted March 3, 2004 (edited) we are forgiven if we have repented and made satisfaction for our sins. To me and how I interpret the bible and history, that is one of the saddest statements I have ever heard. But I see that I can say, yes uh and you can say nu uh quite well. So the only thing I can say to cmother and others that take her stance is to ask them this: If you had (or have) a child, do you forgive them only if they say they are sorry and make reparations for the harm they have done? I would imagine that you forgave them even before they asked. I would think you would forgive them, and hope that they choose to do these things regardless of the fact that they don't have to to earn your forgiveness. But you might not think that after all, I could be wrong. Edited March 3, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Except we're not children, and must take responsibility for our actions. By your reasoning everyone is going to heaven regardless of what they have done because God has forgiven them. We have to take ownership of our sins. In order to be forgiven we must realize our sinfulness, our spiritual bankruptcy before God. Only then can we say, I'm sorry and ACCEPT the forgiveness that God is handing to us. We can't be forgiven if we don't realize we need to be. As for reparation, that proves our repentence and honors the one who has forgiven us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted March 3, 2004 Author Share Posted March 3, 2004 (edited) I'll quote you what I quoted her: What makes one "saved" is their works of charity. Being forgiven is simply God calling us. And it is nice to know that we are forgiven. You can be forgiven and still be in hell. You have to be truly charitable and confess (acknowledge) your sins to be saved. But we are all forgiven. Edited March 3, 2004 by dairygirl4u2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 dairygirl, can you please provide scriptural support and/or early christian testimony to defend your recent posts in this thread. it will also be very helpful if you will define your terminology, b/c it has become apparent to me that we have drastically different definitions for words like "forgiven" and "saved". w/o your proof and these clarifications, your posts are often difficult for me to understand. for example: It appears the CC teaches that you have to do something to be forgiven after all. How sad. as i requested earlier, can you please explain what you are accusing the Church of here, and prove why this is particularly "sad"? What makes one "saved" is their works of charity. didn't u just chastise for "doing something" in order to be forgiven, yet here you defend works for salvation? please explain this apparent contradiction, and prove your claim we are "saved by works of charity" also, in response to the statement, "we are forgiven if we have repented and made satisfaction for our sins," you replied by stating: To me and how I interpret the bible and history, that is one of the saddest statements I have ever heard. proof please! why is this sad? You have to be truly charitable and confess (acknowledge) your sins to be saved. But we are all forgiven. i don't understand these statements either. again, providing scriptural support and definitions for your terminology (particularly the words "saved" and "forgiven") will help this dialogue tremendously. thank you and may God Bless You, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 dairygirl, i anxiously await your response to my most recent post. pax christi, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsFrozen Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Mar 2 2004, 08:55 PM'] So the only thing I can say to cmother and others that take her stance is to ask them this: If you had (or have) a child, do you forgive them only if they say they are sorry and make reparations for the harm they have done? I would imagine that you forgave them even before they asked. I would think you would forgive them, and hope that they choose to do these things regardless of the fact that they don't have to to earn your forgiveness. But you might not think that after all, I could be wrong. [/quote] Yes, but you're forgetting that the forgiveness goes both ways. If my son does something to hurt me, and I forgive him, I have done my part. If he is not sorry and/or continues to hurt me, then he is not doing his part. He has rejected my forgiveness. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsFrozen Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Mar 2 2004, 09:59 PM'] I'll quote you what I quoted her: What makes one "saved" is their works of charity. Being forgiven is simply God calling us. And it is nice to know that we are forgiven. You can be forgiven and still be in hell. [/QUOTE] You have to be truly charitable and confess (acknowledge) your sins to be saved. But we are all forgiven. [/quote] Dairygirl, I think I understand what you are saying. Your stance is that we are all forgiven no matter what. But we must embrace God's forgiveness, confess, and repent to go to heaven. Am I correct? God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Everyone is forgiven. agreed. Does everyone accept the forgiveness? No. People in Hell have [b]rejected[/b] God's forgiveness, even though they have been forgiven. Out of their own [i]free will[/i] the people in Hell have rejected His love and Mercy. So let me ask you this....do you believe in Hell? If so, then who goes there? If not, why? And how did you come to the conclusion? Peace and God Bless. and I also await your responses to phatcatholic. Please define and be clear of what you say because most of the time I have no clue as to what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='phatcatholic' date='Mar 3 2004, 01:36 AM'] dairygirl, can you please provide scriptural support and/or early christian testimony to defend your recent posts in this thread. it will also be very helpful if you will define your terminology, b/c it has become apparent to me that we have drastically different definitions for words like "forgiven" and "saved". w/o your proof and these clarifications, your posts are often difficult for me to understand. for example: as i requested earlier, can you please explain what you are accusing the Church of here, and prove why this is particularly "sad"? didn't u just chastise for "doing something" in order to be forgiven, yet here you defend works for salvation? please explain this apparent contradiction, and prove your claim we are "saved by works of charity" also, in response to the statement, "we are forgiven if we have repented and made satisfaction for our sins," you replied by stating: proof please! why is this sad? i don't understand these statements either. again, providing scriptural support and definitions for your terminology (particularly the words "saved" and "forgiven") will help this dialogue tremendously. thank you and may God Bless You, phatcatholic [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted March 4, 2004 Author Share Posted March 4, 2004 tina and all, I just wanted to note that I am not posting here since I am posting the same topic in former seminarian forgiven section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 [quote name='jmjtina' date='Mar 3 2004, 11:17 PM'] Everyone is forgiven. agreed. Does everyone accept the forgiveness? No. People in Hell have [b]rejected[/b] God's forgiveness, even though they have been forgiven. Out of their own [i]free will[/i] the people in Hell have rejected His love and Mercy. So let me ask you this....do you believe in Hell? If so, then who goes there? If not, why? And how did you come to the conclusion? Peace and God Bless. and I also await your responses to phatcatholic. Please define and be clear of what you say because most of the time I have no clue as to what you mean. [/quote] do you believe in hell dairygirl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted March 5, 2004 Author Share Posted March 5, 2004 Yes I do. As I said, go to the "Former Seminarian Forgiven" thread to see what my reply is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 can someone just close this thread please. i think we are done w/ it. thanks, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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