Homeless People

[Alycin]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1582480' date='Jun 25 2008, 12:01 AM']I never said people were judgemental for not giving them money, I said they were 100% wrong for not doing it as there are NUMEROUS stories in the bible about us supposed to be giving to the homeless. Never once does it say only give to shelters. Jesus calls us to give to the poor, give our money, sell our possessions.

Now your twisting words to try and make your point. I said as long as one feels SAFE, then they should do whatever we are called to do by Jesus and God. If one does not feel safe, then that is a different matter entirerly. Although not giving money just because you think the money might end up supporting a habit is no reason not to help. Like I said earlier, do you ask Hyvee about how all their employees spend their money before you use their services? You could very well be supporting a habit a cashier has. Or is it only the homeless who have habit problems?[/quote]

1) I said roadside assistance and not 911. Two different things here. Soooo yeah. Whatever.

2) You imply that people are judging all homeless people as having habit problems. Just take a look at your last sentence. (You make this way too easy for me. )

3) I never said, "Don't help." You are using black and white thinking. I said, "Help in more effective ways." But you overlooked that part.

4) The bible says to help the poor, it does not specifically say homeless, but the homeless are included under that category. However, there are many ways to help. I believe ministries are more effective. It's also highly likely that ministries are more effective.

5) I have no idea what Hyvee is. I assume maybe it's a grocery store? Also--I talked about something I learned in rehab, so you implying that I am judging homeless people (Yes, whether you admit it or not, you are implying that I am judging) as being the only people who have addictions is utterly ridiculous.

6) Why haven't you sold your computer? You could pawn it for some cash and find a homeless person to give that cash to pretty easily.

Don't be a hypocrite.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1582537' date='Jun 25 2008, 12:36 AM']1) I said roadside assistance and not 911. Two different things here. Soooo yeah. Whatever.

2) You imply that people are judging all homeless people as having habit problems. Just take a look at your last sentence. (You make this way too easy for me. )

3) I never said, "Don't help." You are using black and white thinking. I said, "Help in more effective ways." But you overlooked that part.

4) The bible says to help the poor, it does not specifically say homeless, but the homeless are included under that category. However, there are many ways to help. I believe ministries are more effective. It's also highly likely that ministries are more effective.

5) I have no idea what Hyvee is. I assume maybe it's a grocery store? Also--I talked about something I learned in rehab, so you implying that I am judging homeless people (Yes, whether you admit it or not, you are implying that I am judging) as being the only people who have addictions is utterly ridiculous.

6) Why haven't you sold your computer? You could pawn it for some cash and find a homeless person to give that cash to pretty easily.

Don't be a hypocrite.[/quote]

1. Roadside assistance is the same idea as it sends more than one unit there. Which deprives someone else in need of assitance. I was giving you an example which you could use to see what I was talking about. Obviously it flew right over your head.

2. I am not implying anything, I am directly going off what other posters have said in this topic. If you go back and read what other people wrote, you will see it is exactly what I am talking about. There is no implying, there is only going off what was posted.

3. Once again, please go back and read the posts before yours. Numerous posters stated that they would NOT give a thing such as money to homeless people because they might spend it on their supposed habit. They instead give them cards with shelter numbers on them.

4. I would not say ministries are always more effective. A body does need to eat and if a poor person can not eat, they will die. Ministries are important but so is money for food and shelter. If one can not even afford a place to stay or a food to eat, then they will die. Simple as that.

5. Again, not judging, just going off what you posted which was in relation to what I originally posted. Ok once again, my first post was SPECIFIC in that it was about what people were posting. I do not know if you did not read the previous posts before mine, but it seems you think my post came out of the blue and what not. It was infact in response to what others said. Also just because you learned something does not make it universal which you seem to imply. Yes, you do not explicitly state it this way, but your words IMPLY your thinking to be this way. I am going off of how you posted your message. I have learned working in my proffession there are homeless people who can't catch a break and have no habit they are feeding but at the time are just down on their luck. Now do I think this applies to everyone, no.

6. And once again, you twist words to make your argument. Did I state you must sell everything you own so you to are poor now? I did not state sell every possession you own. But once again, you twist things to try and make your point instead of realizing you might not be 100% correct on everything. I said if someone aks for money give them some. If you walk past someone who says I am starving can I have some money please, don't hand them a card with a shelter number on it. Give them some money. SImple as that.

Oh and just for clarification, I should sell this computer to give the money to the poor. Ideally that's what I should do, but I am not ideal and am no where near perfect. I never said I was but yet you twists words to imply I am. I try my best to follow the teachings of Jesus. Do I fall short? Often. Although what can one expect, I am niether a saint or perfect. I am simply human. I try my best to follow his teachings. He says help the poor and give whatever is aksed of you. So that's what I try to do. Refusing to give money and instead giving shelter numbers is doing the opposite of what Jesus taught us.

[Alycin]

I am only going to comment on number 4 because all your arguments are circular. After that I'm done.

Homeless ministries DO feed (and often clothe and shelter) people. If you read my posts you would know that!

[havok579257]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1582589' date='Jun 25 2008, 01:43 AM']I am only going to comment on number 4 because all your arguments are circular. After that I'm done.

Homeless ministries DO feed (and often clothe and shelter) people. If you read my posts you would know that! [/quote]

Not all ministries do. The Catholic shelter we have in the heart of KC is only open for one meal a day and the portions given to the people are so small due to so many homeless people all coming to one place. Not to mention we consistantly run out of food and have to tell people sorry, you got here to late for any food.

Also since the shelter is only open for select hours people can only get clothes during those hours and if they don't get them then, then they are out of luck.

Not to mention a lot of the shelters in KC run out of room for people to stay in or the places are not kept up to liveable standards. Also many are not safe and we are called to them many times because homeless people are assulted there by other homeless people. Security is very poor or non-existant. Also I was talking someone a while ago who was homeless who said some shelters require people to pay a dollar to stay there for the night. Althoguh a dollar is not much, if no one gives the homeless any money, then how does one attain a place to stay.

It would be great if things worked out perfectly but I think we can all agree that the system of dealing with and helping the poor is anything but perfect.


Now I am NOT implying this happens everywhere but this does happen in KC as I know for a fact. So ministiries while the intent is good, do not always help everyone who needs it.

Here is my question, why do you seem to have a problem giving homeless people some cash of yours when you walk past one on the street?

[Alycin]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1582597' date='Jun 25 2008, 01:52 AM']Not all ministries do. The Catholic shelter we have in the heart of KC is only open for one meal a day and the portions given to the people are so small due to so many homeless people all coming to one place. Not to mention we consistantly run out of food and have to tell people sorry, you got here to late for any food.

Also since the shelter is only open for select hours people can only get clothes during those hours and if they don't get them then, then they are out of luck.

Not to mention a lot of the shelters in KC run out of room for people to stay in or the places are not kept up to liveable standards. Also many are not safe and we are called to them many times because homeless people are assulted there by other homeless people. Security is very poor or non-existant. Also I was talking someone a while ago who was homeless who said some shelters require people to pay a dollar to stay there for the night. Althoguh a dollar is not much, if no one gives the homeless any money, then how does one attain a place to stay.

It would be great if things worked out perfectly but I think we can all agree that the system of dealing with and helping the poor is anything but perfect.
Now I am NOT implying this happens everywhere but this does happen in KC as I know for a fact. So ministiries while the intent is good, do not always help everyone who needs it.

Here is my question, why do you seem to have a problem giving homeless people some cash of yours when you walk past one on the street?[/quote]

I don't. I have a problem with you telling people they should when you don't know in what other ways they help.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1582602' date='Jun 25 2008, 02:00 AM']I don't. I have a problem with you telling people they should when you don't know in what other ways they help.[/quote]


Once again I was specificlly talking to people who said they REFUSE to give the homeless anything besides numbers to shelters. They would not give them money or help other than cards for shelters. They said they were doing this to not feed into their supposed habits.

[Alycin]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1582612' date='Jun 25 2008, 02:14 AM']Once again I was specificlly talking to people who said they REFUSE to give the homeless anything besides numbers to shelters. They would not give them money or help other than cards for shelters. They said they were doing this to not feed into their supposed habits.[/quote]


I just went back and read EVERY SINGLE POST.

Exactly ONE person said they don't give cash but give the information for a shelter that they have personal experience with. That ONE person also talked about the extensive work they did with the homeless.

So maybe you should change your wording to 'i was specifically talking to the one person out of the 32 people that responded'

Edited June 25, 2008 by Alycin

[Justin86]

Out of everyone in this thread I agree the most with Alycin.



Now how does kujo feel on the topic? The universe is about to implode again...

Edited June 25, 2008 by Justin86

[Lucy Lionheart]

there are plenty of people with bad habits who are not homeless but as long as we are not mean to them why does it matter

we just hafta do our best

i don't agree with giving cash either

i have sold way too much alcohol to homeless guys who got change from waiting outside the store

i even hide the take a penny when they come becuase i don't want to give into their habits

i give pennies to the kids who want to buy soda or the moms who run a penny or two over fueling their mini van

[Alycin]

[quote name='Justin86' post='1582679' date='Jun 25 2008, 07:54 AM']Out of everyone in this thread I agree the most with Alycin.[/quote]

[Alycin]

* cough*

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1582159' date='Jun 24 2008, 08:30 PM']Thought I would add my 2 cents.[/quote]
Oh I get it. Change. 2 cents. heh.

[Alycin]

[quote name='Lounge Daddy' post='1583433' date='Jun 25 2008, 11:59 PM']Oh I get it. Change. 2 cents. heh.[/quote]


LOL

[johnnydigit]

i'm going to collect the information of the local shelters and soup kitchens and have it printed on business cards for free, plus 5$ shipping. (250cards, vistaprint.com) been meaning to do it for a while for those times when i don't have anything to give.

talked to a man on the street the other day on my bike ride home, and he said that he has no problem finding food and even clothes. his main problem is shelter (he sleeps under the overpasses), and finding a job as an ex-convict (400 applications in a month, no responses). also other people will steal your shoes and goods if you leave them out, and many carry knives for protection, so be careful.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1582179' date='Jun 25 2008, 02:43 AM']People didn't say they wouldn't help, they said they would be more likely to give them actual food and/or restaurant coupons.

Homeless ministries don't just take up collections and then hand out 50 bucks to every homeless person. They offer those people food, clothes, blankets, toiletries, and, when they can, shelter.

In my opinion, there is a very big difference between someone who tosses some coins at a homeless person as they walk down the street, and someone who says, "Can I buy you dinner?" to that person. One person is doing something that doesn't take much effort, the other is offering the gift of time. One person spends only seconds near the homeless individual, while the other actually spends time with them and shows them that someone sincerely cares.

How easy is it to write a check for something and then never think about it again? Like with New Orleans? Of course it was wonderful that people opened their checkbooks and donated to the hurricane victims, but some people literally left their jobs and went to New Orleans and gave the gift of time. THAT is amazing.[/quote]

I agree. One of my friends (farglefeezlebut on the phorum) encountered a homeless man named Ray once. She knows his name because she and a friend took him to a cafe for breakfast and spent time chatting to him. He was suffering from cancer, which had been induced by dependency on alcohol. He was quite honest about his addiction. He had been disowned by his family because of it. They had made numerous attempts to help him but had grown tired by his continual descent back into drinking. He sleeps on park benches. Perhaps that should be 'slept', as we don't know whether he's alive now. When you are homeless and close to death, I think it means more to share a meal with somebody who cares enough to talk to you than it does to receive their spare coins.

I also find it upsetting that some people immediately assume that the homeless men and women will be dangerous and violent. I was walking through town at about ten p.m. once, on my way home from the train station. There was a man just behind me who had also been on my train, dressed in a suit and carrying a briefcase, probably a London commuter. As we rounded a corner, a homeless man whom I know cycled past me and stopped the man to ask for some change. The man said no and Clive cycled off. I turned round and, waddling to catch up, said, "Clive, do you need money?"

He said, "I wasn't going to ask you as you're a girl on your own. Even grown men get a bit scared of me." Then he laughed as if at a very amusing joke, but I knew it was true and I felt sad. I gave him what I had. I know that he sells the [i]Big Issue[/i] magazine for a living, so if he ever does ask for money (which is rare) he must need it.

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1583600' date='Jun 26 2008, 09:06 AM']i'm going to collect the information of the local shelters and soup kitchens and have it printed on business cards for free, plus 5$ shipping. (250cards, vistaprint.com) been meaning to do it for a while for those times when i don't have anything to give.

talked to a man on the street the other day on my bike ride home, and he said that he has no problem finding food and even clothes. his main problem is shelter (he sleeps under the overpasses), and finding a job as an ex-convict (400 applications in a month, no responses). also other people will steal your shoes and goods if you leave them out, and many carry knives for protection, so be careful.[/quote]

It's a shame that he hasn't found anybody willing to give him a second chance yet. I'll pray.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Cathoholic Anonymous