Homosexuals

[Alycin]

[quote name='Pontifite 7 of 10' post='1563933' date='Jun 8 2008, 10:30 PM']But As an American, isn't this the land of the free? I don't like the homosexual lifestyle one bit, but if we are to live up to the constitution, shouldn't we let them? With liberty and justice for all?[/quote]

Short answer, no. The constitution does not protect their right to have their union recognized as marriage.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1563965' date='Jun 8 2008, 09:40 PM']Short answer, no. The constitution does not protect their right to have their union recognized as marriage.[/quote]
True. That's not found in the Constitution. In fact, sodomy used to be illegal in most states.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1564001' date='Jun 8 2008, 09:51 PM']True. That's not found in the Constitution. In fact, sodomy used to be illegal in most states.[/quote]

SCOTUS has recognized the constitution as protecting marriage as a fundamental right under the Due Process clause. Along with all the other non-listed rights like privacy.

[CatherineM]

The problem with that "land of the free" thing in America is that somewhere along the line, we lost our common sense. If you asked someone on the street if people should have the right to marry their sister or an 8 year old, they'd say that's crazy, that no one should have that right. A hundred years ago if you had asked an ordinary American on a street corner if homosexuals should have the right to marry, first they'd ask have to ask what the heck a homosexual was, and then they'd say that's nuts for them to marry.

When I was a kid, and asked a really stupid question just for the sake of annoying my dad, he'd look at me and say, "get out of here." We've forgotten how to do that. Everything is up for debate. There was a time that a parent could just say no, and that was the end of the conversation, but now parents have to get into these long discussions about why, and arguments about why not. There are some things that are so obvious, so basic, so traditional, that we shouldn't have to have a debate about them at all.

[Galloglasses]

Tradition is the devil in this modern relativistic world.
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[Pontifite 7 of 10]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1564060' date='Jun 8 2008, 11:08 PM']The problem with that "land of the free" thing in America is that somewhere along the line, we lost our common sense. If you asked someone on the street if people should have the right to marry their sister or an 8 year old, they'd say that's crazy, that no one should have that right. A hundred years ago if you had asked an ordinary American on a street corner if homosexuals should have the right to marry, first they'd ask have to ask what the heck a homosexual was, and then they'd say that's nuts for them to marry.[/quote]
That is an awesome way of putting it.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1564060' date='Jun 8 2008, 10:08 PM']The problem with that "land of the free" thing in America is that somewhere along the line, we lost our common sense. If you asked someone on the street if people should have the right to marry their sister or an 8 year old, they'd say that's crazy, that no one should have that right. A hundred years ago if you had asked an ordinary American on a street corner if homosexuals should have the right to marry, first they'd ask have to ask what the heck a homosexual was, and then they'd say that's nuts for them to marry.[/quote]

Does that mean that if me and my sister live to be centarians, we'll be able to finally get married!?!?!?!

Just kidding. Seriously though, well stated. 100 years ago all sorts of sex acts were illegal in most states. Who knows what kind of cess pool our grandkids will be born into...I kinda wonder what my grandmother thinks...seems like her generation has seen the greatest change in morality in the shortest time...

[Madtown Sem.]

We have had these conventions and traditions for enough generations that people have forgotten WHY they are in place. Do we follow these traditions just because that's what everyone before us has done? Or do we follow them because they are right, the correct way to behave. I guess I feel that too few people know why we believe what we do. Especially with natural law issues, it should be possible to argue completely from a logical/rational point of view....should be possible

[Kitty]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1564060' date='Jun 8 2008, 11:08 PM']The problem with that "land of the free" thing in America is that somewhere along the line, we lost our common sense. If you asked someone on the street if people should have the right to marry their sister or an 8 year old, they'd say that's crazy, that no one should have that right. A hundred years ago if you had asked an ordinary American on a street corner if homosexuals should have the right to marry, first they'd ask have to ask what the heck a homosexual was, and then they'd say that's nuts for them to marry.[/quote]

Actually, the phrase "homosexual" was created in the mid 19th century, so by 1908, most people would be aware of what a homosexual was. Also, many more countries were more tolerant of same-sex relationships then.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Madtown Sem.' post='1565418' date='Jun 9 2008, 07:48 PM']Especially with natural law issues, it should be possible to argue completely from a logical/rational point of view....should be possible[/quote]

If something is objectively true because of natural law, it should always and in every generation be true from a logical/rational standpoint. That assumes that the current generation really 'knows' how to approach something rationally and logically rather than with our own relativistic, egalitarian wishy-washy tendencies...

[IrishSalesian]

[quote name='Veridicus' post='1565446' date='Jun 9 2008, 10:05 PM']If something is objectively true because of natural law, it should always and in every generation be true from a logical/rational standpoint. That assumes that the current generation really 'knows' how to approach something rationally and logically rather than with our own relativistic, egalitarian wishy-washy tendencies...[/quote]

Agreed. That is why today it is now ever so niticable that most of the generation of young people are so messed up with their sense of morals.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Kitty' post='1565435' date='Jun 9 2008, 08:58 PM']Actually, the phrase "homosexual" was created in the mid 19th century, so by 1908, most people would be aware of what a homosexual was. Also, many more countries were more tolerant of same-sex relationships then.[/quote]
Wow. Could you source that?

[Alycin]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1565507' date='Jun 9 2008, 09:33 PM']Wow. Could you source that?[/quote]

Which part were you wanting a source for? [url="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=homosexual"] The terminology[/url] or the acceptance in other countries?

[Socrates]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1564043' date='Jun 8 2008, 10:01 PM']SCOTUS has recognized the constitution as protecting marriage as a fundamental right under the Due Process clause. Along with all the other non-listed rights like privacy.[/quote]
I believe a very dangerous precedent was set when federal courts began "recognizing" (i.e. making up) "non-listed" rights and powers in the Constitution. It's easy enough for a judge with an agenda to "recognize" whatever he wants to find. Remember, Roe v. Wade was based on such "non-listed rights."

And while I'd personally agree that people do have a fundamental right to marry, the problem is that a sodomistic "union" between two people of the same sex cannot constitute a marriage. And, as has been pointed out, if judges declare that the states must legally recognize homosexual "marriages," then where indeed do you draw the line? Must the states then give the benefits of legal marriage to absolutely anyone who wants them? A man and two women? An apartment full of straight guys? A brother and sister? A man and his mother? A person and a dog?
This is not a facetious argument, but a serious problem with this whole line of legal thought. Once marriage is no longer legally defined as between one man and one woman, how will it be defined?

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1565609' date='Jun 9 2008, 10:12 PM']Which part were you wanting a source for? [url="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=homosexual"] The terminology[/url] or the acceptance in other countries?[/quote]
acceptance