Apotheoun Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' post='1560885' date='Jun 6 2008, 08:12 AM']Please demonstrate where the state recognizes God as the creator of the marriage in a civil ceremony. Or where a civil ceremony requires anyone to be open to life? A judge will say "By the power invested in my by the state of... I now pronounce you man and wife" and there is never a requirement for the contract to be permanent or that the couple be open to children Civil marriage is a contract that does not abide by natural law[/quote] A State that does not recognize the natural institution of marriage is not a proper State, and no one is bound to any law passed by a State that fails to fulfill its proper function. The State does not have power over marriage, it only has power to recognize a legitimately contracted marriage, natural or sacramental, and give that marriage certain legal benefits in relation to the State. The existence of the family is logically antecedent to the State. hot stuff, I am concerned because you do not seem to understand that the natural law is written into creation, and that the State is required to recognize the right and proper use of created gifts. Edited June 6, 2008 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rckllnknny Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 [quote name='Noel's angel' post='1560256' date='Jun 5 2008, 07:48 PM']I don't think it's up to any of us as to how wide the doors into Heaven are...[/quote] i meant widen the doors as also in/ let more people in. actually if i got it right its kind of our purpose here on earth. or what else good are you going to be to God on judgement day?? yep and ill fight this world for each and every one of you/ if not/ for everyone. catholic or not/ gay or not. isnt nice to kno at the end of this world when God was on his throne judging you/ you wasnt there alone bcuz i was there fighting for you?? not bcuz you are catholic but bcuz you are my brothers and sisters?? judgement day hasnt come yet which means im not gonna assume who went to hell and who dint. besides 'all people' is a pretty vague statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rckllnknny Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 again no one is going to change my mind now or ever. ill go to hell for what i believe in. if need be. at least i wont be able to say i stood by and accepted a faith whether or not i agreed with it. i can say i tried to make changes in this world for what i believe in and what i think is right. marriage is blessed union where two souls become one. for ie. Jesus and God. and actually it is even a trinity if i recall. catholicism was not once mentioned in the bible so i will never hold it over deeper regard to the quotations of Christ. and no one but God can tell me whether i am Catholic or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rckllnknny Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 o and i beleive we are all going and have went to heaven. we all are kings and queens and angels and animals are angels there too. i beleive on the last day God declared us all righteousness and reconciled to satan. in math even that makes it the better/best solution possible how come when John had a vision everyone believed him. but for some reason my opinions do not count to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rckllnknny Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 and i believe its in perfect accordance with catholicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycin Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 [quote name='rckllnknny' post='1560896' date='Jun 6 2008, 10:41 AM']o and i beleive we are all going and have went to heaven. we all are kings and queens and angels and animals are angels there too. i beleive on the last day God declared us all righteousness and reconciled to satan. in math even that makes it the better/best solution possible how come when John had a vision everyone believed him. but for some reason my opinions do not count to yours.[/quote] Visions only count for anything when they fall in line with Church teaching and doctrine, and, even then, no one is required to believe them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycin Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 [quote name='rckllnknny' post='1560898' date='Jun 6 2008, 10:44 AM']and i believe its in perfect accordance with catholicism.[/quote] If you truly believe that, then it only goes to show your complete ignorance/misunderstanding of Catholicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rckllnknny Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 no one believed Jesus was God either. besides it can be all quoted in rev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rckllnknny Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 or how deep it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I see a vision where all of Rick's debate threads end up either: 1. running in circles 2. closed 3. moved to the Lame board 4. any and all of the above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rckllnknny Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 you dont hav to believe them i do. but it would make heaven alot better. i kno it would b hard to go to heaven knowing i left behind some people i loved to be tormented in flames forever. its a fight for a good cause anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycin Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 [quote name='rckllnknny' post='1560913' date='Jun 6 2008, 10:52 AM']you dont hav to believe them i do. but it would make heaven alot better. i kno it would b hard to go to heaven knowing i left behind some people i loved to be tormented in flames forever. its a fight for a good cause anyway.[/quote] See Rick, that's the thing. You may be following your conscience in trying to make God's rules more lenient or less strict; I used to do that too. But all of us here who believe in adhering to God's laws as they have been laid down, and not trying to change them ourselves, we do that because we are following our conscience. So you have to understand that while you may think and believe with all your heart that YOUR beliefs are right, we also think and believe with all our hearts. Of course it is nice to hope that everyone gets to heaven--no one with any charity in their hearts wishes hell upon anyone. But neither can we keep anyone out of hell by wishing they won't go there. The surest and safest way to get as many people to heaven as possible is by leading them to Christ, the Church HE founded, and helping them to submit to the laws God provided. God doesn't change for people, people change for God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 [quote name='rckllnknny' post='1560896' date='Jun 6 2008, 10:41 AM']o and i beleive we are all going and have went to heaven. we all are kings and queens and angels and animals are angels there too. i beleive on the last day God declared us all righteousness and reconciled to satan. in math even that makes it the better/best solution possible how come when John had a vision everyone believed him. but for some reason my opinions do not count to yours.[/quote] St. John was an Apostle. That's why we believe him. As for these ideas of yours, they directly contradict the Catholic faith. For one, we don't become angels when we die. All the angels that will ever exist already exist. Secondly, there is no way for Satan to reconcile, and even if a reconciliation did take place (which is nevertheless impossible), it wouldn't be God reconciling to Satan, but the other way around. As for math, it really has nothing to do with theology, except in certain areas, and this is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 [quote name='rckllnknny' post='1560388' date='Jun 5 2008, 07:53 PM']jesus and God have a spiritual union. yet no one ever questions that.[/quote] Oh wait....yeah they did. They were called the Christological heresies of the first few centuries. But I guess if 'everything is right' it wouldn't really matter what those heresiarchs were promulgating in their 'catholic point of views.' Course the word 'Trinity' and 'Hypostatic Union' and whatnot weren't in the New Testement...neither was the word Catholic as you've pointed out. So why bother pretending that any of them carry any more weight than any dissenting opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 [quote name='rckllnknny' post='1560394' date='Jun 5 2008, 07:57 PM']who are you to say, "if you are truly catholic..."[/quote] Do you know what the word 'Catholic' means? If you did you would realize the contradiction in terms of saying 'my Catholic opinion.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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