Churches That Have The Altar In The Center Of The Worship Area

[Paladin D]

I believe most of us are aware that there are Catholic churches which are architecturally designed to have the altar (or sanctuary) in the center of the worship area, while the pews surround it (nav). I'm opposed to this design; however, what valid reason(s) could one use to express disdain for such a design? What if someone who is *for it* uses the argument "Well, it places Christ in the center, instead of the back of the building."

Thanks in advance.


[b]Edit:[/b] Apologize for the brief question, I have to rush out to work.

[Deb]

The couple of churches I have been in that are built in the round, have had seating on three sides of the altar and then the back is filled with statues or whatever. What I did not like about it was that the people on the two side views pretty much got that, a side view. The Priest could not really address everyone face to face during the readings or the homily. I also thought that maybe people were more prone to tune out and check out what everone else was doing as the altar was no longer the only focal point.
Not sure if those are reasons not to do it but, I didn't care for it that much. Pretty churches though.

[IrishSalesian]

The one church that i have seen that had a different than 'normal' design, was in RI. It had the Sanctuary in the middle of the Church. It had the pews on all four sides like a cross, but at the 'intersection' where all four point meet is where the Sanctuary was. I didn't care much for it. But it was an interesting design.

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

I've been to a couple of churches built in the round, and I don't like them either. I will try to deliniate.

1) When someone says "Christ is in the back of the Church" I think it is an incomplete view. Christ is before us, a goal...um goal seems wrong, but I can't think of a better word right now...maybe destination, desire. He is before us in the Tabernacle, at least in my dioces the tabernacle is required to be centered behind the alter. It becomes a focal point, during private prayer as well as during the liturgy.

2) When a church is built in the round it becomes problematic of where to put the tabernacle. When we enter the church we genuflect to the tabernacle which is holding the body of our Lord and Savior. I was visiting a parish during on of my military trainings and spent five minutes looking around before I could find the tabernacle which was behind me...not a pleasent experience.

3) When in the round churches and I try to pray privately before or after mass, ther is always someone walking in front of you, because in front of you is the "back" of the church. It becomes a distraction to devotion to God.

just my thoughts.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='IrishSalesian' post='1557220' date='Jun 4 2008, 11:26 AM']The one church that i have seen that had a different than 'normal' design, was in RI. It had the Sanctuary in the middle of the Church. It had the pews on all four sides like a cross, but at the 'intersection' where all four point meet is where the Sanctuary was. I didn't care much for it. But it was an interesting design.[/quote]

Seattle's cathedral is constructed like this. I wasn't there for a Mass, but stopped by to visit on a weekday afternoon. I actually liked how the design offers so many different views and angles... makes the space feel very deep and open to exploration, much like our faith. Also, it seemed as though the pews were situated far enough away from the altar to prevent too much distraction, though I'm sure that's a problem if you're in the first few rows on any side. Their tabernacle is in a prayer chapel in one of the corners near the sanctuary.

What would be nice is if the sanctuary were raised several steps above the congregation, and the altar even another step or two over the sanctuary. That way you'd avoid the awkwardness of looking at people on the other side, plus it would create a strong "mountain" effect in directing the congregation's eyes upward during Mass.

[dUSt]

I'm not really oppossed to the design, but what I do oppose is when the altar is not clearly defined.

For example, in the church I use to attend, the altar was in the center, with stadium type seating in the round surrounding it. Well, there was no raised step or platform around the altar, so people would literally walk on all sides of it on their way to and from their seats. It turned more into a table sitting in the middle of a room as opposed to an altar that should be treated with reverence and respect.

[CatherineM]

Our church has 3 sides, but the altar isn't in the middle. I did see a church once like that, and thought it strange that all the older ladies were in the back. Now that I think about it, they may have simply liked seeing the priest from behind like pre-Vatican II.

[Noel's angel]

By the four winds he measured the wall thereof on every side round about, five hundred cubits long and five hundred cubits broad, making a separation between the sanctuary and the place of the people.
Ezekiel 42:20

Adoremus has lots of stuff on Church architecture. (www.adoremus.org)



"The idea that celebration versus populum was the original form, indeed the way the Last Supper itself was celebrated, rests purely and simply on a mistaken idea of what a banquet, Christian or even non-Christian, was like in antiquity. In the earliest days of Christianity the head of table never took his place facing the other
participants. Everyone sat or lay on the convex side of an S-shaped or horseshoe-shaped table. Nowhere in Christian antiquity could anyone have come up with the idea that the man presiding at the meal had to take his place versus populum. The communal character of a meal was emphasized by precisely the opposite arrangement, namely, by the fact that everyone at the meal found himself on the same side of the table (54f).
In any case, there is a further point that we must add to this discussion of the 'shape' of meals: the Eucharist that Christians celebrate really cannot adequately be described by the term 'meal'. True, Our Lord established the new reality of Christian worship within the framework of a Jewish (Passover) meal, but it was precisely this new reality, not the meal as such, which He commanded us to repeat. Very soon the new reality was separated from its ancient context and found its proper and suitable form, a form already predetermined by the fact that the Eucharist refers back to the Cross and thus to the transformation of Temple sacrifice into the reasonable worship of God.
The turning of the priest toward the people has turned the community into a self-enclosed circle. In its outward form, it no longer opens out on what lies ahead and above, but is locked into itself. The common turning toward the East was not a "celebration toward the wall"; it did not mean that the priest "had his back to the people": the priest himself was not regarded as so important. For just as the congregation in the synagogue looked together toward Jerusalem, so in the Christian Liturgy the congregation looked together "toward the Lord". As one of the fathers of Vatican II's Constitution on the Liturgy, J.A. Jungmann, put it, it was much more a question of priest and people facing in the same direction, knowing that together they were in a procession toward the Lord. They did not lock themselves into a circle, they did not gaze at one another, but as the pilgrim People of God they set off for the Oriens, for the Christ who comes to meet us....
On the other hand, a common turning to the East during the Eucharistic Prayer remains essential. This is not a case of accidentals, but of essentials. Looking at the priest has no importance. What matters is looking together at the Lord. It is not now a question of dialogue, but of common worship, of setting off towards the One who is to come. What corresponds with the reality of what is happening is not the closed circle, but the common movement forward expressed in a common direction for prayer...."
Spirit of the Liturgy

Edited June 4, 2008 by Noel's angel

[Paladin D]

Here's one from our diocese: [url="http://www.bedeva.org/"]St. Bede[/url]

Nice organ though! [url="http://www.bedeva.org/about/aboutStBede.htm"]http://www.bedeva.org/about/aboutStBede.htm[/url] Click on 'virtual tour', it has pictures of the altar and of the organ. The altar is raised a few steps.

[Noel's angel]

Two words say it all: 'worship area'

Edited June 4, 2008 by Noel's angel

[White Knight]

Well I personally believe the traditional form is best used for the Alter, with the Tabernacle behide the Alter in sight of course, however I can see the logic behide the alter being in the center of the Church, I mean if you really think about it, Calvery is represented on the Alter basically every time we go to Mass.

I have my preference for the traditional Church structure, not so much round, even though I can see why they do it, I just disagree with it.

[picchick]

The thing I do not like about an altar in the center is that I feel that it causes distraction among the congregation.

I really don't want to see the guy across the way picking his nose when I am trying to focus on Jesus getting raised up. Yeah I guess I could ignore him, or close my eyes.

I think that the focus just tends to be on the community rather than Jesus when the altar is in the center. Also, if Jesus is in the Church where He should be, where would you put Him so that no one would have their back facing Him.

I do not know the whole doctrine behind the altar being at the front. I know that there is something like the congregation should be facing East because in Jesus's second coming, He will show up in the East. We hope that He comes around during Mass. How cool would that be. That is why the priest faces the same way in the Traditional Masses.

Pax out,
Meg

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Paladin D' post='1557852' date='Jun 4 2008, 02:42 PM']Here's one from our diocese: [url="http://www.bedeva.org/"]St. Bede[/url]

Nice organ though! [url="http://www.bedeva.org/about/aboutStBede.htm"]http://www.bedeva.org/about/aboutStBede.htm[/url] Click on 'virtual tour', it has pictures of the altar and of the organ. The altar is raised a few steps.[/quote]
A Church like the one above makes me glad that I am Byzantine Catholic.