How Should The Priest Say Mass?

[Maria Faustina]

In my Church, the Pastor is beginning to face away from the people while saying the Mass. I was wondering if anyone else's church did this. I do not really understand it all that well because I wasn't alive for Vatican II or whenever the Magisterium reformed it. Father Newman, the pastor, explained it as facing "ad orientem" or facing the east. Could someone explain this to me and possibly explain why they agree or disagree? Thanks!

In Christ,

Maria Faustina

[TeresaBenedicta]

Personally, I love the symbolism of "ad orientem". Instead of seeing it as the priest "facing away from the congregation", I see it more as though the priest is "facing [i]with[/i] the congregation". The priest is offering the sacrifice on behalf of the people, it seems to make sense that he be a representative of the people. And I think that's the symbolism that "ad orientem" has. Plus, I believe I read somewhere that it also falls in line with how the high priests would enter the Holy of Holies and what have you. And, just as a last note, I feel like the Mass [i]can[/i] kind of turn into a show with the priest facing the people. Oh, and I can only imagine how much more distracting it might be for the priest as well!

Hmm... come to think of it, I seem to recall reading somewhere that even with the application of the N.O. Mass, it wasn't stated for the priest to turn around. That the N.O. was originally still supposed to be ad orientem. But, I don't remember where I read this, so I could definitely be wrong.

[CatherineM]

Our church faces North.

[Maggyie]

When a priest prays the Mass "ad orientem," he is not really "facing away from the people," rather he is facing God.

The idea is that priest and people are supposed to be praying to God, not to each other, so it doesn't really work for the whole Mass to be spent with the priest staring at the people and the people staring back at the priest. After all, you're supposed to look at the person you're talking to, right? So, since the priest is praying with the people, he should face the same direction as the people, at least for the prayers of the Mass that are directed specifically toward God.

Praying toward the East is a liturgical tradition that has its beginnings in early Christianity's roots in Judaism. If you visit an Orthodox synagogue, you will see that the rabbi prays facing the East, or toward Jerusalem. Christians retained the custom of praying toward the East, although we are praying not so much toward Jerusalem as toward the resurrection of the body and the returning Christ. Incidentally, ad orientem worship was the norm for the vast majority of Christian history, until the Protestant Reformation. In the Eastern Orthodox tradition, this prayer posture is retained.

[Maria_Faustina]

My parish does not (nor do any others in my diocese, I think, except at the one that has the Latin Mass, of course). I'm surprised your priest changed it; that's cool. (I don't actually know if it's allowed in the Novus Ordo? just because I've never seen it. I don't see why not..).
I would prefer to have the priest and the congregation face the same way, like it was for a long time before these last 3 decades.. I'll let someone else explain the history/reasons to you, because they can do it better. My own reason for agreeing it should be ad orientem is, besides tradition, that it makes the priest and the people both face one direction. So, for example, when the priest holds up the Body at the consecration, the congregation and him are both looking up at Jesus, together. When the priest faces the people, though, it seems more like he is holding out the Body and Blood for them to see--like he's exhibiting. There are more reasons for both 'sides' than this, but I just thought it was worth pointing out.
And, it's to the east because that's the symbolic 'direction' of God. If He is the Sun, the Morning Star, they both rise in the east, etc. The east has also symbolized life, and the west death/the netherworld, in a lot of cultures throughout time. People face east for other things too, like when saying the Angelus.

Pax Christi

[Maria_Faustina]

Wow, by time I'd posted my response, other people already gave good answers! Sorry for repeating stuff, then..

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Maria_Faustina' post='1555748' date='Jun 2 2008, 11:57 PM']I'm surprised your priest changed it; that's cool. (I don't actually know if it's allowed in the Novus Ordo? just because I've never seen it. I don't see why not..).[/quote]
Ad orientem was never forbidden or even discouraged (officially), nor did Vatican II call for the versus populum fad. Ad orientem is an apostolic tradition and versus populum is a fad from the 1960's revolution. The fad started because of a mistaken idea that this was the posture used in the early Church. There is also a false ecumenical impetus since Martin Luther is really the father of versus populum and the liturgical establishment of the 1960's and 70's was out to make Catholic worship more palatable and familiar to Protestants. There has never been a ban on ad orientem and all priests have been free to use this posture in the Mass. In the past a priest was considered an old fogy and/or “behind the times” if he were to celebrate Mass ad orientem, but I like to think that the Church is starting to care more about fidelity to tradition and sound theology than to being groovy or whatever.

[kujo]

Facing the congregation....didn't Vatican II say so?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='kujo' post='1555817' date='Jun 3 2008, 01:31 AM']Facing the congregation....didn't Vatican II say so?[/quote]
No. There was a document from the CDW a number of years after the Council that opened up the possibility (although by this point the fad was already quite widespread), but it was never mandated. Bouyer, Jungmann and others were quite critical of versus populum and the disappearance of ad orientem, and in more recent times the whole premise of it has been refuted. Pope Benedict and U.M. Lang have written some sweet stuff for starters.

[Laudate_Dominum]

This book is pretty darn sweet.

[url="http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/forewd_umlang_may05.asp"]http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features200...mlang_may05.asp[/url]

[thicke]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1555726' date='Jun 2 2008, 11:52 PM']Our church faces North.[/quote]

Your church might face "geographic North", but it and all churches face "liturgical East". We're not talking about compass points here.

Edited June 3, 2008 by thicke

[Didymus]

[quote name='thicke' post='1555874' date='Jun 3 2008, 08:10 AM']Your church might face "geographic North", but it and all churches face "liturgical East". We're not talking about compass points here.[/quote]

oh... um... what?

[Veridicus]

The first time I attended an 'ad orientem' Eucharistic Liturgy in the NO Mass was when I was in Rome last June. I was attending Santa Maria Maggiore for Sunday Mass and the young celebrant turned around during the Eucharistic Liturgy. Personally, I think the return of 'ad orientem' could bring a revival of reverence to flagging liturgies in many diocese. I think it would do a lot ot return people's focus to the Eucharist at the Mass and would lessen the sometimes obfuscating theatrics of the priest.

My mom was raised Catholic and hasn't really missed a Sunday Mass that I can ever remember, but when she was dating my previously-Methodist stepfather she attended his Methodist services a few times. She was struck by how "similar it was to the Mass...they basically say all the same things." Even as a junior high student I had to remind her that just because you say similar words doesn't mean its the Eucharist.

Anyway, I think the revival of wide-spread-use ad orientem would lessen the confusion for Catholics on WHY they are going to Catholic Mass and not some prot. worship service. I think it would revitalize emphasis on the Eucharist and dramatically enhance the reverence of the laity attending the NO Mass. I wish my diocese was a little less liberal on issues like these so some of our local priests would feel 'freer' to adjust posturing in their liturgies.

Peace,

Todd W.

[Galloglasses]

Never seen an Ad Orientum nor a TLM. I've only ever seen Novus Ordo, (Don't worry, I didn't see anything rediculous in my 17 years of Catholicity, except for one which i shall not speak), But I would love to.

[Maggyie]

[quote name='thicke' post='1555874' date='Jun 3 2008, 09:10 AM']Your church might face "geographic North", but it and all churches face "liturgical East". We're not talking about compass points here.[/quote]


[quote name='Didymus' post='1555903' date='Jun 3 2008, 10:06 AM']oh... um... what?[/quote]


"Liturgical East" means facing the "East" of Jesus Christ. One way of emphasizing "liturgical East" even in church buildings that face different geographic points, or when celebrating Mass "facing the people," is by using an altar cross. The Holy Father has re-introduced the altar cross at papal Masses to make this point about liturgical East ([url="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/Maggyie/GrC3BCndonnerstagRom08-10.jpg"]pic[/url])