Collapse Of Christianity, Islam Filling Void

[mortify]

[b]Bishop says collapse of Christianity is wrecking British society - and Islam
is filling the void[/b]
By Sean Poulter and Niall Firth
Last updated at 10:17 AM on 29th May 2008
[url="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1022491/Bishop-says-collapse-Christianity-wrecking-British-society--Islam-filling-void.html"][u]Link to article[/u][/url]

[color="#0000FF"]The collapse of Christianity has wrecked British society, a leading Church of England bishop declared yesterday.

It has destroyed family life and left the country defenceless against the rise of radical Islam in a moral and spiritual vacuum.


In a lacerating attack on liberal values, the Right Reverend [b]Michael Nazir-Ali[/b], the Bishop of Rochester, said the country was mired in a doctrine of 'endless self-indulgence' that had brought an explosion in public violence and binge-drinking.

In a blow to Gordon Brown, he mocked the 'scramblings and scratchings' of politicians who try to cast new British values such as respect and tolerance.

The Pakistani-born bishop dated the downfall of Christianity from the 'social and sexual revolution' of the 1960s.

[b]He said Church leaders had capitulated to Marxist revolutionary thinking and quoted an academic who blames the loss of 'faith and piety among women' for the steep decline in Christian worship.[/b]

[b]Dr Nazir-Ali said the ' newfangled and insecurely founded' doctrine of multiculturalism has left immigrant communities 'segregated, living parallel lives'.[/b]

Christian values of human dignity, equality and freedom could be lost as the way is left open for the advance of brands of Islam that do not respect Western values.

The Bishopric of Rochester is one of the ten most powerful positions in the Church of England.

Dr Nazir-Ali's attack on the decline of Christianity appears to put him in the opposite corner to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, and many of his fellow bishops.

But he holds some views in common with the Church's other widely-heard and popular prelate, Ugandan-born Dr John Sentamu, the Archbishop of York.

Over the past six months, Dr Nazir-Ali has made a number of criticisms of Islam and its influence.

Among them have been charges about the spread of no-go areas for non-Muslims and worries over the impact of new mosques.

Last weekend he was one of just three bishops who backed a move in the Church's parliament, the General Synod, to encourage the conversion of Muslims to Christianity.

[b]His latest attack once again criticises Dr Williams's backing for sharia law, saying that 'recognising its jurisdiction in public law is fraught with difficulties, precisely as it arises from a different set of assumptions than the tradition of law here'.[/b]

Dr Nazir-Ali detailed his arguments in an article in the newly-launched political magazine Standpoint.

The bishop, himself an immigrant from Pakistan in the mid-1980s, admitted that he might be thought the least qualified person to discuss British identity. But he quoted Kipling: 'What should they know of England who only England know?'

The bishop said 'something momentous' had happened in the 1960s. He quoted historians who point to a cultural revolution in which women ceased to uphold or pass on the Christian faith and to the role of Marxist revolutionaries.

Dr Nazir-Ali pointed with approval to a finding that 'instead of resisting this phenomenon, liberal theologians and church leaders all but capitulated.
Rowan Williams

Criticised: Archbishop of Canterbury Dr. Rowan Williams has controversially backed sharia law

He said: 'It has created the moral and spiritual vacuum in which we now find ourselves.' In the place of Christianity there was nothing 'except perhaps endless self-indulgence'.

The bishop said the consequences were 'the destruction of the family because of the alleged parity of different forms of life together, the loss of a father figure, especially for boys, because the role of fathers is deemed otiose, the abuse of substances (including alcohol), the loss of respect for the person leading to horrendous and mindless attacks, the increasing communications gap between generations and social classes - the list is very long.'

Another result, he said, was that immigrants had been welcomed, not on the basis of Britain's Christian heritage, to which they would be welcome to contribute, but by the 'newfangled and insecurely-founded doctrine of multiculturalism'.

The bishop warned that views not founded on Christianity would not produce the same values. 'Instead of Christian virtues of humility, service and sacrifice, there may be honour, piety, the saving of face, etc'.

He questioned what resources were available for an ideological battle against radical Islamism, saying 'the scramblings and scratchings around of politicians for values which would provide ammunition' were hardly adequate.
[b]Convert who crusaded against the extremists
[/b]
Born into a Roman Catholic family in Pakistan, the young Michael Nazir-Ali converted to Anglicanism at the age of 20.

As a young man, he suffered rough treatment of the kind regularly handed out to Christians in a country where failing to follow the official religion can sometimes end in murder.

He moved to Cambridge to study theology and then returned as a priest to Pakistan before being brought to London in the 1980s to serve as an assistant to the then Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Robert Runcie.

He is one of the bishops who has been called on by the Prince of Wales to give advice on Islam.

However, Dr Nazir-Ali does not share the prince's enthusiasm for Islamic values. He has warned Charles to give up his hope of being 'defender of faiths' because of the incompatibility of different beliefs.

[b]Dr Nazir-Ali has accused Muslims of promoting double standards by looking for both 'victimhood and domination'; he has called for powers for officialdom to remove veils from Muslim women for security reasons; and he has warned repeatedly over the dangers of extremism.
[/b]
In particular he has called on Islamic leaders to allow Muslims to abandon their beliefs and adopt other religions.

[b]Dr Nazir-Ali has spoken up for an estimated 3,000 Britons under threat of retaliation for giving up their faith and he has condemned Islamic states that maintain the death penalty for apostasy.
[/b]
His outspokenness has put him in the vanguard of opposition to hardline Islamism and made him one of the highest-placed enemies of the gay rights movement.

He angered the Archbishop of Canterbury by threatening to boycott this year's Lambeth Conference of Anglican bishops from around the world.

He has criticised civil partnerships and opposed the extension of IVF treatment to single women and lesbians.

Dr Nazir-Ali has much in common with the Archbishop of York Dr John Sentamu. Unlike him, however, he does not have a populist touch.

This may have contributed to his failure to win the post of Archbishop of Canterbury, for which he was once considered a leading candidate.

The 58-year-old bishop has now remained in Rochester for nearly 14 years. [/color]

[CatherineM]

To add something to his concerns about them picking the wrong places to accept immigrants from. The problem is that there are no primarily Christian countries that have such a high birth rate that they need to send emigrants anywhere.

[FreeSoul]

The Church of England is still the head of state.

Christianity will have officially collapsed when the people vote to remove The Queen as the head of the Church (which is ludicrous anyway!)

[Galloglasses]

And if Lisbon treaty gets passed, no country in the EU will have the right to decide immigration policy, Muslims, especially if Turkey becomes an EU state, can flood any country they want, even here in Ireland, (altough thanks to the credit crunch, falling job rates and crashing econemy, we're not such an attractive destination Nation anymore, which is both very good, and, very bad)

Edited May 31, 2008 by Galloglasses

[Apotheoun]

Sadly, the Catholic Church in England has by and large succumbed to the same revolutionary ideology that has destroyed the Anglican Communion.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='FreeSoul' post='1550026' date='May 30 2008, 07:09 PM']The Church of England is still the head of state.

Christianity will have officially collapsed when the people vote to remove The Queen as the head of the Church (which is ludicrous anyway!)[/quote]
Prince Charles said a few years ago that he believes that the King of England should be styled "Defender of Faith," instead of "Defender of [i][b]the[/b][/i] Faith."

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4253003.stm"][u]Charles: A modern prince[/u][/url]

[Galloglasses]

Multiculturalism has already destroyed 'British Culture', its unrecogniseable now, its as if Britain's sold its soul. (And i'm not talking in the Religious Sence)

[Old_Joe]

I would take it back even further to say King Henry VIII. Also, from what I hear, a lot of the country has embraced Wicca and the occult, but I don't know for sure. also, I should like to point out that not all Islamists are extremists. There are some that are very virtuous and honorable.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='FreeSoul' post='1550026' date='May 30 2008, 09:09 PM']The Church of England is still the head of state.

Christianity will have officially collapsed when the people vote to remove The Queen as the head of the Church (which is ludicrous anyway!)[/quote]
Indeed.

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1550042' date='May 30 2008, 09:31 PM']Sadly, the Catholic Church in England has by and large succumbed to the same revolutionary ideology that has destroyed the Anglican Communion.[/quote]

If RTS games have taught me anything, this looks like a classic example of "we can't defend our borders", if you understand what I'm saying. We're losing much of the beauty of English Catholic tradition as the clock ticks on (from what is left in the Anglican church, as well as what has been kept in the Catholic church). There will be definitely be pruning in the Church. I hope for the day though, that the Anglican Church comes home to Rome. I hope it won't be too late... that is, all the Anglican churches turned into Mosques or public places.

[edit for clarity]

Edited May 31, 2008 by Sacred Music Man

[CatherineM]

Joe-you're lucky Madame V is in Japan right now.

[lilac_angel]

[b]"He said Church leaders had capitulated to Marxist revolutionary thinking and quoted an academic who blames the loss of 'faith and piety among women' for the steep decline in Christian worship."[/b]

Women's lib took women's minds off faith in God and refocused it all on themselves, so I'm not surprised.

But then again, everyone's faith and piety decreased after the 60s.

It's odd that so many seem to be in denial, even most of the bishops. You'd think a nation like England especially would take a convert from Islam saying those things a little more seriously. Admirable guy to stand in the face of so much opposition... I pray that people will start getting the message.

Edited May 31, 2008 by lilac_angel

[misereremi]

[quote name='Galloglasses' post='1550029' date='May 31 2008, 03:14 AM']altough thanks to the credit crunch, falling job rates and crashing econemy, we're not such an attractive destination Nation anymore[/quote]
we're not doing so well economically either.

[quote name='lilac_angel' post='1550259' date='May 31 2008, 06:43 AM']But then again, everyone's faith and piety decreased after the 60s. [/quote] Yes.

The Anglican bishop has sussed out our problems here in England and I agree with what he’s saying are the causes of the decline. I have seen many people close to me convert to Islam, especially young men, because Christianity was seen as watered down and effeminate, or ‘only for geeks’. However, 5 years later, these converts are really confused, because they saw over time how the Muslim community in Britain is very divided, and there is no one interpretation of Islam. Secularism has also affected the Muslims here. There are many who are only nominally Muslims but just as liberal- and alcoholism is a big problem in many Muslim communities.

I disagree with insinuations that Catholicism in England is following the same trend as Anglicanism. Yes, we have had a collapse, and we have had some very wishy-washy bishops, and entire generations of poorly catechized people, but the tide is changing. We have many orthodox holy priests and religious here, and zealous Catholic immigrants, converts, and reverts transforming our parishes. I have witnessed many conversions to Catholicism these past 2 years. The faith of the Catholic young people I know is enormous, they are not afraid of anyone or anything, not least of Islam.

I have A LOT of very difficult issues with members of the Muslim community in my personal life , but I am not afraid to challenge Islam, to go to the ‘no-go’ areas, to bring Muslims to Church out of love for them. One of my best friends is a Catholic friar in predominantly Muslim Bradford. His advice to me was ‘never fear, every day prepare for martyrdom if it comes to it.’

Personally, I’d like to see less Catholics simply talking the talk or blogging about how much they know about Islam or the threat of Islam, and more of them actually going out and evangelising to Muslims by their lives and by words. I believe that Catholicism in England is not a lost cause. I think we need to be less fearful and hopeless about things, and have more hope, courage, and zeal for our faith if we truly want to convert souls. It has to come from the people because the leadership won't do it anytime soon.

[mortify]

What are these "no go" areas exactly?

[Apotheoun]

A few articles on the subject:

[url="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3537594.ece"][u]Are Muslim enclaves no-go areas, forcing other people out, asks historian John Cornwell[/u][/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a82MQx-SjkM"][u]No Go Muslim Areas in Britain[/u][/url]

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7173599.stm"][u]Bishop warns of 'Islamic areas'[/u][/url]

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='misereremi' post='1550382' date='May 31 2008, 05:34 AM']I disagree with insinuations that Catholicism in England is following the same trend as Anglicanism.[/quote]
Sadly, the Catholic Church in many Western countries has become a type of "mainline" Protestantism that is nearly indistinguishable from the Episcopal or Methodist Churches.

Edited May 31, 2008 by Apotheoun