For Prots - What Does Eat Flesh And Drink Blood Mean

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1541749' date='May 25 2008, 07:09 PM']You may be on to something there, b/c they do go insane if you start talking about "the bloodless sacrifice". They have some weird notion that we are trying to make Jesus "die" over and over again. They also have a huge problem with the bloodless sacrifice because they believe we Catholics are saying Jesus' bloodshed/death wasn't enough to secure salvation for the world and therefore, that's why we Catholics do the consecration over and over. So they think our traditions are really insulting to God.

Well, the bottom line (IMNSHO) is that living, understanding and believing the Catholic Faith is not easy. Being Prot is easy. You can make things up as you go along, interpret scripture how you please, don't have to submit to any authority, don't have to confess your sins out loud to another person, don't have to learn all kinds of deep theological concepts, don't have to worry about birth control, can divorce if you want AND re-marry as many times as you want. The list goes on and on.

Catholicism is not easy to live and it's not something easily grasped at either. Nothing truly wonderful ever is. Anything in life that is truly worth anything has to be worked at. You have to endure. In order for Prots to really understand where we are coming from they would have to be patient and learn. But they aren't used to having to learn anything. They just memorize Scripture and that's it. Sure, they do things to foster their relationship with Christ but they simply don't have the intellectual challenges that we have. I feel like for Prots the Gospel is a stationary entity, whereas for Catholics it is a living, breathing organism.[/quote]

[Veridicus]

[quote name='kujo' post='1541724' date='May 25 2008, 12:49 PM']I think it's sad that their entire existence is based entirely on NOT being Catholic. Even sadder is the fact that they can't realize that they are missing so much of what God has in store fo them.[/quote]


Protestantism is by its very nature (I mean look at the name!) ordered toward dichotomizing itself from what is protesting against: namely Catholicism.

It really is sad that so much of the subsequent theology had to develop in a way that sought to maximize the false binaries. I mean look a the typical arguments :Faith vs. Works, Grace Vs. Merit, Jesus vs. Mary, Scripture vs. Tradition, etc. etc. I think almost everyone on some level understands that Faith and Works and Scripture and Tradition are all important. But in order to truly protest and offer something 'different' than Catholicism, you have to try and define yourself against the status quo.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1541553' date='May 25 2008, 10:57 AM']He also thinks that we do it too frequently, because that makes it lose the specialness (at his church at home, they have communion maybe once a month).[/quote]

This argument is just silly. Because I don't remember Jesus stipulating how often we were supposed to celebrate the Eucharist in anamnesis of him. I don't remember Paul stipulating how often to celebrate it either. And as Scott Hahn mentions, the book of Revelations depicts an eternal supper of the lamb. Does it 'lose its specialness' in heaven?

I think the real issue behind this kind of mentality is the reality that for the protestant worship service, the focus is on the individual experience rather than a communal appreciation for the significance of the event. One of my non-demoninational buddies, God bless him, often says things like "The guitar was so fantastic today I really felt the spirit during our Worship songs." As if you have to have good music to know the Holy Spirit is present. If protestant communion is about an individual feeling...then I would guess that yes, doing it to often could cause the 'vanity to fade' awefully quickly. Just like an old worn-out P&W song.

It boggles my mind to be honest how Protestants can say things like "Catholics are misogynists and want to keep the woman down which is why they can't be priests" but then say something like "Catholics worship Mary." You cannot logically try to continually play both sides of the coin. I think the phrasing about frequency of reception of The Blessed Sacrament and its 'specialness' is silly when they also call me "Weekly bread-worshipper". You just can't have it both ways.

Argh!

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1540319' date='May 24 2008, 04:06 PM']The purpose of this thread is NOT to discuss transubstantiation. Jesus said "unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you shall not have life within you." He said "my flesh is true food, my blood is true drink".[/quote]

He did say that. How is this related to OSAS?

Some Protestants do accept the literal interpretation, like Anglicans and Lutherans. Those who don't see it as a metaphor in the sense that we feed upon Christ as the Bread of Life through the Scripture, prayer, worship, etc. He is true food and true drink because we truly need him to live, just like we need physical food and drink to live.

[HisChildForever]

I don't understand how many Protestants can take the book of Revelation as 100% literal, and yet when Christ said "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you" (taken from today's Gospel), they don't interpret it as literal!

[Selah]

Well, that's what happens when a person has "private interpretation" "well, Jesus really meant this" or, "It really doesn't mean that.."

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I know a non-denominational church that believes that their communion is truly the body and blood of Jesus Christ. They don't have any type of consecration rite, I believe. But I've asked one of the members their before and they told me flat out that they believe it is truly the body and blood of Jesus Christ. Apparently they have a type of penitential rite before they have "communion". So when asking them what Christ meant, they understand it similarly to us.

Jennie not Micah.

[Deb]

Prostestants might do themselves a favor by reading the writings of the early fathers, those who first preached the word of Jesus Christ as they were set out to do and those who learned from them.

St. Ignatius of Antioch has some incredible writings that are so very clear that it is the true body and blood of Jesus.
He talked of the heretics who do not admit the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ. So, those who do not believe were considered heretics from the earliest times of the church.
He also said that "all were to follow the bishop, as Jesus Christ followed the Father, and as the presbytery as the Apostles; respect the deacons as the ordinance of God. Let no one do anything that pertains to the church apart from the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is under the bishop or one whom he as delegated."

He said, "Therefore be eager for more frequent gatherings for thanksgiving (eucharist) to God and for his glory. For when you meet frequently the forces of Satan are annulled and his destructive power is canceled in the concord of your faith."

He is just one writer. How could anyone possilby believe anything other than the Catholic Church is beyond me. I and others can actually see the difference in me if I go to daily mass or if I miss daily mass. The Eucharist builds one up and I cannot imagine ever going back to only receiving it once a week.

If you refuse to see the truth that is sitting right in front of you because of your own personal prejudices, you are denying the Lord. He said he was the truth. When I see the vicious way some protestants react to anything other than what their little sect has decided to warp worship to the Lord into, it really makes me wonder if they truly know the Lord and the way he wanted us to live. I can only pray that they will see the light at some point. God can read their hearts and to deny our Christ in the Eucharist to me, is denying Christ himself.

Edited May 25, 2008 by Deb

[BG45]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1541779' date='May 25 2008, 03:31 PM']I was a protestant for many years and I can attest that for prots, the Eucharist is by far the hardest thing to understand. I don't know why, really. Even for me, it's one of those things that I still don't completely "get" yet, how it all works out, anyway. I believe it, it's just not 100% clear to me, if that makes sense.

Confession and purgatory are the other two things most prots don't understand, but those two were a lot simpler to grasp than the Eucharist.

:shrug:[/quote]

*raises hand* The Protestant agrees.

When you are raised that it is a symbol, and nothing more and entire sections and chapters are glossed over in sermons and Bible Study; you don't think about it really. You just know that all you've been taught is that "They are wrong" and don't tend to question it.

Personally for me, it was the Scripture on not removing Scripture that got me questioning nearly half my life ago. After all, there were those other books taken it out at some point, and wasn't that altering the Scriptures? Like Alycin says, the Eucharist is probably the hardest thing to accept, the rest is almost "easy" in comparison. I know that the first time I went to Eucharistic Adoration it was because the Catholic Church was making too much sense and had too much historical proof and that I needed to go to the heart of it all, to go before the Eucharist and be able to sit there and feel absolutely nothing...and then ending up in tears put a kink in the plan.

[Alycin]

[quote name='BG45' post='1542094' date='May 25 2008, 07:30 PM']*raises hand* The Protestant agrees.

When you are raised that it is a symbol, and nothing more and entire sections and chapters are glossed over in sermons and Bible Study; you don't think about it really. You just know that all you've been taught is that "They are wrong" and don't tend to question it.

Personally for me, it was the Scripture on not removing Scripture that got me questioning nearly half my life ago. After all, there were those other books taken it out at some point, and wasn't that altering the Scriptures? Like Alycin says, the Eucharist is probably the hardest thing to accept, the rest is almost "easy" in comparison. I know that the first time I went to Eucharistic Adoration it was because the Catholic Church was making too much sense and had too much historical proof and that I needed to go to the heart of it all, to go before the Eucharist and be able to sit there and feel absolutely nothing...and then ending up in tears put a kink in the plan.[/quote]

Which begs the question... why are you still protestant? What did I miss?

Edited May 25, 2008 by Alycin

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1542129' date='May 25 2008, 06:46 PM']Which begs the question... why are you still protestant? What did I miss? [/quote]


That's exactly what I was wondering... If the Eucharist reduces one to tears and that same one recognizes the volumes of historical and theological truth...

And just out of curiousity: Is Mostly Baptist roughly equivalent to Generally Baptist?

[BG45]

[quote name='Alycin' post='1542129' date='May 25 2008, 08:46 PM']Which begs the question... why are you still protestant? What did I miss? [/quote]

Well it used to be fear of familial reaction; but lately dad has been joking he expects me to "Go Catholic as obsessed as you are with the Pope". Mom defending my going to pray and sit in quiet to read the Bible at Blessed Margaret of Castello, a PA chapel to my aunt who was afraid it would "make me go Catholic".

It still is to an extent a fear about my grandmother's reaction, she's old enough to remember sitting on her mother's lap and listening to the stories of the family's Catholic/Protestant Split in the 1800s. Though whenever I do 'break it' to my mother at least I need to order a DVD from EWTN on when my question was featured on the Journey Home.

The main thing now is lack of a stable work schedule/location that would allow me to attend RCIA.

[BG45]

[quote name='Veridicus' post='1542149' date='May 25 2008, 08:54 PM']That's exactly what I was wondering... If the Eucharist reduces one to tears and that same one recognizes the volumes of historical and theological truth...

And just out of curiousity: Is Mostly Baptist roughly equivalent to Generally Baptist? [/quote]

Why was I silly enough to reply to this thread again?

It basically means I claim to be Baptist, I've been raised Baptist, and I tend to admit the Catholic Church is right anymore.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='BG45' post='1542175' date='May 25 2008, 07:06 PM']The main thing now is lack of a stable work schedule/location that would allow me to attend RCIA.[/quote]

That is awesome that you are so level-headed and honest in your approach to truth and conversion. Just out of curiousity...if you don't mind my asking...are you in high school? college? workforce?

I'll be praying for you.

Todd W.

[Alycin]

[quote name='BG45' post='1542175' date='May 25 2008, 08:06 PM']Well it used to be fear of familial reaction; but lately dad has been joking he expects me to "Go Catholic as obsessed as you are with the Pope". Mom defending my going to pray and sit in quiet to read the Bible at Blessed Margaret of Castello, a PA chapel to my aunt who was afraid it would "make me go Catholic".

It still is to an extent a fear about my grandmother's reaction, she's old enough to remember sitting on her mother's lap and listening to the stories of the family's Catholic/Protestant Split in the 1800s. Though whenever I do 'break it' to my mother at least I need to order a DVD from EWTN on when my question was featured on the Journey Home.

The main thing now is lack of a stable work schedule/location that would allow me to attend RCIA.[/quote]


How similar our stories are!

Fear of rejection by my family left me believing Catholicism to be the truth, but not "doing anything about it" for about a year and a half, maybe a little more.

I was [i]scared beyond belief[/i] to tell my parents about it. My Dad is a lapsed Catholic and had never talked about why he left the church, so I was scared to go there with him. My Mom is a Methodist and though she doesn't have anything against Catholicism per se, she is very much opposed to a few individual Catholic teachings due to her extremely liberal political beliefs.

After almost 2 years of not wanting to tell them, I finally found the courage to, and, to my complete and utter surprise, they were extremely supportive. They already had suspicions, as I constantly had the TV on EWTN and I prayed the rosary, and got mail from nuns. lol. My Dad even went so far as to tell me [i]he would like to go to Mass with me[/i] sometime. My heart leaped for joy at that. My mom said, "I think it's fine, I'm concerned that it will be hard for you considering your political beliefs." Little did she know that Christ had used His Church to completely 180 my former political beliefs. My sister even got me a rosary for my birthday as a show of support.

I'll be going through RCIA this fall at Steuby, so I'm pretty excited. I couldn't do it earlier for the same reasons as you.

Praying for you.