For Prots - What Does Eat Flesh And Drink Blood Mean

[thessalonian]

The purpose of this thread is NOT to discuss transubstantiation. Jesus said "unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you shall not have life within you." He said "my flesh is true food, my blood is true drink".

[Autumn Dusk]

I'm not a protestant but my roommate is and we've had many a discussion about religion.

To her this meant that she had to share in the suffering and joys of Christ symbolically. That we must "truly" be dedicated with heart and soul.

[CatherineM]

That's the way my grandmother, who was a Baptist, believed.

[Madame Vengier]

I grew up in the Bible Belt and yes, they think it is strictly "symbolic". The wine is a *symbol* of Christ's blood, and the bread is a *symbol* of his body. Actually, most Prots don't use wine anyway so it's grape juice. Grape juice is a symbol of wine. A symbol on top of a symbol on top of another symbol.

You can't challenge them either. If you try to their eyes glaze over and smoke comes out of their ears. They are completely incapable of explaining to you why it is that they take 98% of everything in the Bible LITERALLY except for the Eucharist and the teaching on divorce. Those two things....eh, they can sugarcoat it somehow. Suddenly, when it comes to those two things it's like, Jesus didn't really mean what he was saying. He was just talking in code or something.

It's not their fault. They have been spoonfed 500 years of a half-baked theology that has its origins in outright heresy and they are confused. If they knew the One True Church, they would love it.

[kujo]

I had a close friend in high school who was Baptist. Really nice girl. We would have Biblical discussions and theological debates at lunch all the time. Anyway, one day, we started in on the Eucharist. I spent 15 minutes giving her a detailed explaination as to why the Eucharist is the Body of Christ, citing the Bible, Church scholars, saints, etc. I even told her of my devotion to Eucharistic adortion and how the many hours spent in prayer before my Lord had shaped and formed my heart, providing me with an opportunity to unload all of myself unto Him, giving Him my cares, my worries, my fears, my joy, my ambitions, my hurts. I told her that the person I was was due entirely to this intimate time with Christ.

Her response?

To laugh at me, saying she didn't believe that the priests were "magicians."

[i]Lord, have mercy.[/i]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1541349' date='May 25 2008, 07:07 AM']I grew up in the Bible Belt and yes, they think it is strictly "symbolic". The wine is a *symbol* of Christ's blood, and the bread is a *symbol* of his body. Actually, most Prots don't use wine anyway so it's grape juice. Grape juice is a symbol of wine. A symbol on top of a symbol on top of another symbol.

You can't challenge them either. If you try to their eyes glaze over and smoke comes out of their ears. They are completely incapable of explaining to you why it is that they take 98% of everything in the Bible LITERALLY except for the Eucharist and the teaching on divorce. Those two things....eh, they can sugarcoat it somehow. Suddenly, when it comes to those two things it's like, Jesus didn't really mean what he was saying. He was just talking in code or something.

It's not their fault. They have been spoonfed 500 years of a half-baked theology that has its origins in outright heresy and they are confused. If they knew the One True Church, they would love it.[/quote]

Edited May 25, 2008 by kujo

[MissScripture]

[quote name='kujo' post='1541540' date='May 25 2008, 10:38 AM'][/quote]


Did Kujo and Mme. V just AGREE?




One of my roommates this past year got engaged to a Methodist. He goes to Mass with us, but keeps trying to get her to convert. He understands that we believe that it's truly body and blood, but he doesn't really get why, despite our attempts to explain it. He also thinks that we do it too frequently, because that makes it lose the specialness (at his church at home, they have communion maybe once a month).

[kujo]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1541553' date='May 25 2008, 12:57 PM']

Did Kujo and Mme. V just AGREE?

[/quote]

[Galloglasses]

I know one Protestant friend in School, he's just like Madam V describes, cept here in Ireland. Try talking through a constant and consistant flow of sandpapered theology that comes from his mouth, I swear. I tried to explain the Peter is the rock thing, he went into lingual translations, I did so to. He just wouldn't let me finish. =[

But yeah, its be safe to say that he believes the eucharist is a symbol.

This may shock some of you but one time during a Mass at school, (Catholic School, we has us a chapel, thank God it hasn't been ruined yet), he went up to take the Eucharist and said "No" to the Eucharistic minister and walked off down to his pew again.

Another time, him and a few others kept their eucharists, (IE: they didn't eat them), and they went out into the corridor later that day and taunted "Oh we believe in the wafer!" I think this guy I was talking about actually threw his eucharist into a bin.

The real shocker? This fundamentalist, who is, was and will be surrounded by Catholics, used to be an Athiest.

Sometimes I wonder.

[Madame Vengier]

They are tough nuts to crack. In addition to the errors in their scriptural interpretation that we were talking about, they also come from a 500-year tradition of anti-Catholicism, even if as individuals they are not quote-unquote "anti-Catholic". Their tradition teaches them that THEY are always right and Catholics are always wrong. They have to teach *us* the truth, not the other around. Poor souls. They haven't the first clue how preposterous this is.

[kujo]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1541722' date='May 25 2008, 02:45 PM']They are tough nuts to crack. In addition to the errors in their scriptural interpretation that we were talking about, they also come from a 500-year tradition of anti-Catholicism, even if as individuals they are not quote-unquote "anti-Catholic". Their tradition teaches them that THEY are always right and Catholics are always wrong. They have to teach *us* the truth, not the other around. Poor souls. They haven't the first clue how preposterous this is.[/quote]

I think it's sad that their entire existence is based entirely on NOT being Catholic. Even sadder is the fact that they can't realize that they are missing so much of what God has in store fo them.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='MissScripture' post='1541553' date='May 25 2008, 04:57 PM']He also thinks that we do it too frequently, because that makes it lose the specialness (at his church at home, they have communion maybe once a month).[/quote]
Most Methodist churches I've encountered have it once a month. My parents' church also has a weekly communion service. The Baptist church I grew up in had it once a quarter (it's even written in the by-laws to have it like that); their reasoning, too, was that frequent reception would make it grow less special. My response is that, just as it never gets old saying "I love you" to your spouse or children, it also never gets old receiving the Eucharist.

And to answer the OP, my church never really got into what it meant to eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ. They maintained that the Lord's Supper was purely symbolic and to be done simply to remember Christ's sacrifice. I truly think a good deal of the misunderstanding comes from not understanding the Passover and Jewish tradition (in part, at least). Not that one has to have a perfect understanding of those things, but they provide a foundation.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1541735' date='May 25 2008, 12:55 PM']I truly think a good deal of the misunderstanding comes from not understanding the Passover and Jewish tradition (in part, at least). Not that one has to have a perfect understanding of those things, but they provide a foundation.[/quote]


You may be on to something there, b/c they do go insane if you start talking about "the bloodless sacrifice". They have some weird notion that we are trying to make Jesus "die" over and over again. They also have a huge problem with the bloodless sacrifice because they believe we Catholics are saying Jesus' bloodshed/death wasn't enough to secure salvation for the world and therefore, that's why we Catholics do the consecration over and over. So they think our traditions are really insulting to God.

Well, the bottom line (IMNSHO) is that living, understanding and believing the Catholic Faith is not easy. Being Prot is easy. You can make things up as you go along, interpret scripture how you please, don't have to submit to any authority, don't have to confess your sins out loud to another person, don't have to learn all kinds of deep theological concepts, don't have to worry about birth control, can divorce if you want AND re-marry as many times as you want. The list goes on and on.

Catholicism is not easy to live and it's not something easily grasped at either. Nothing truly wonderful ever is. Anything in life that is truly worth anything has to be worked at. You have to endure. In order for Prots to really understand where we are coming from they would have to be patient and learn. But they aren't used to having to learn anything. They just memorize Scripture and that's it. Sure, they do things to foster their relationship with Christ but they simply don't have the intellectual challenges that we have. I feel like for Prots the Gospel is a stationary entity, whereas for Catholics it is a living, breathing organism.

[Alycin]

I was a protestant for many years and I can attest that for prots, the Eucharist is by far the hardest thing to understand. I don't know why, really. Even for me, it's one of those things that I still don't completely "get" yet, how it all works out, anyway. I believe it, it's just not 100% clear to me, if that makes sense.

Confession and purgatory are the other two things most prots don't understand, but those two were a lot simpler to grasp than the Eucharist.

:shrug:

[kujo]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1541749' date='May 25 2008, 03:09 PM']Well, the bottom line (IMNSHO) is that living, understanding and believing the Catholic Faith is not easy. Being Prot is easy. You can make things up as you go along, interpret scripture how you please, don't have to submit to any authority, don't have to confess your sins out loud to another person, don't have to learn all kinds of deep theological concepts, don't have to worry about birth control, can divorce if you want AND re-marry as many times as you want. The list goes on and on.

Catholicism is not easy to live and it's not something easily grasped at either. Nothing truly wonderful ever is. Anything in life that is truly worth anything has to be worked at. You have to endure. In order for Prots to really understand where we are coming from they would have to be patient and learn. But they aren't used to having to learn anything. They just memorize Scripture and that's it. Sure, they do things to foster their relationship with Christ but they simply don't have the intellectual challenges that we have. I feel like for Prots the Gospel is a stationary entity, whereas for Catholics it is a living, breathing organism.[/quote]



Wow...we are eye-to-eye today, Madame V.


[quote name='Alycin' post='1541779' date='May 25 2008, 03:31 PM']I was a protestant for many years and I can attest that for prots, the Eucharist is by far the hardest thing to understand. I don't know why, really. Even for me, it's one of those things that I still don't completely "get" yet, how it all works out, anyway. I believe it, it's just not 100% clear to me, if that makes sense.

Confession and purgatory are the other two things most prots don't understand, but those two were a lot simpler to grasp than the Eucharist.

:shrug:[/quote]

Aly, I suggest checking out Scott Hahn's [u]The Lamb's Supper[/u] to answer your Eucharistic-inquiries. It is an AWESOME book.

[Alycin]

[quote name='kujo' post='1541785' date='May 25 2008, 02:33 PM']

Wow...we are eye-to-eye today, Madame V.
Aly, I suggest checking out Scott Hahn's [u]The Lamb's Supper[/u] to answer your Eucharistic-inquiries. It is an AWESOME book.[/quote]


Thanks for the suggestion!