Gemma Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 [quote name='EWIE' post='1576070' date='Jun 19 2008, 12:36 PM'][If there was a question of appropriateness, the hermitess-canonist would have let me know from the beginning. Gemma, We trust you more than we can trust a nameless "hermitess-canonist." I had requested a name for this person. You are in the public format and therefore no reason to be secretive about the name. One of my friends is a "foundress, hermit, canon lawyer' also. I will wait for the answers to my questions regarding Canons of the church, which were asked in a previous message.[/quote] I've not cleared it with her, yet. I will also have to pass those canon law questions on to her. Blessings, Gemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister_Laurel Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 [quote name='TradMom' post='1575211' date='Jun 18 2008, 01:20 PM']+ Praise be Jesus! I have been very busy at home getting the oldest settled into her new Carmelite Monastery - doing well all whom have asked! Thank you for the prayers, please keep them coming. The youngest (baby) is growing, and well, the rest are in their places, keeping all of us busy. I know I have PM's - which I will answer - but allow me to weigh in on this one quickly. I cannot remember if I have spoken publicly or just in PM's that I am a former therapist, with a specialty in recovery from destructive cultic movements. I mention that only because my previous line of work (which has never left me!) comes in here. There have been various comments and opinions being thrown about here, and many of them carry weight. The comments and opinions which ask for prayers and compassion are worthy as well, enough said. Someone mentioned (forgive me for not going through each post line by line) Gemma being misleading. Another mentioned that if it is from God, it will grow. From what I can see, and from what I have personally experienced, Gemma IS misleading. At this point, Gemma is NOT a Foundress of an Order or a Congregation. Gemma hopes to be. She has founded the Cloisterite Outreach so in that sense, YES, she is a FOUNDRESS. But of a religious order, no. Yes, she has conceived of the idea and in that sense, she has given birth to something which may in fact take hold at some point and grow into fruition. Certainly, we do not want to rob her of her dreams and hopes, and for that, yes, let us continue to pray that she will find great strength, support, encouragement and help. Let us ask the Lord to bless her desires and bring them to Holy Mother Church, for the greater glory of God and His children. That being said, as another Phatmasser has already pointed out, this is a forum (phorum) that is used for information gathering, support, prayer, etc. This is not the appropriate place to advertise or attempt to gather new recruits to something that is not yet recognized as valid. Whomever said this is misleading is correct. A person without adequate resources could easily find herself wasting time, hoping to belong to one of the orders that Gemma has listed on her website - not fully realizing that these are imaginary orders; still in the process of conception. They certainly seem to be real to Gemma, but to one whom doesn't know better, it is difficult to tell. Gemma, when you have your ducks in a row, so to speak, and approval from the Bishop and Cardinal, then begin your process of recruitment. At this point, you have so many listed, with such details - that yes, it is easy to see how this could be perceived as disturbing. You must certainly recognize that how a Mother, with two big children, living with autism, inventing orders - including habits, spiritualities, schedules, and different charisms, without the direct input of a recognized Church official comes across. One of my precious children was born with Down's Syndrome, and I recognize the challenges one faces in dealing with a difference. All the more reason, especially as you have already explained, it affects your ability to communicate, you need to be formally recognized. As for...[i]if it is from God, it will grow[/i], I must take issue with that. Sadly, in our world, we have many things that our Creater has allowed to grow that have not been blessed by Him. In fact, many things have been fostered within the confines of the Church Herself. I see no need to list any here, but sadly, I have no doubt many of you can think of some on your own. We have been blessed with Free Will, and this is an example. Each Diocese has a Vicar of Religious and it is his/her job to guide and support communities - amongst other things. Need I mention that often (as has been discussed!) a community needs correction, watching and/or help? The Church is very careful in establishing new communities, and with good reason. And naturally, just because an Order wears a habit does not mean they are solid, strong or in good standing. (Look at the many that are so sadly in schism that fit that description.) This thread has been good in that opinions and thoughts have been expressed politely and in charity. Critical thinking is one of the hallmarks of our great Faith, and we are not a destructive cult, which prohibits questioning and accepts only black/white dogma. Gemma, I do commend you for answering and keeping a cool head, which must be hard. You will be under scrutiny, as you most surely know, if you move forward. No, you have not asked for advice, but I will give it anyway. There would be no questions, no objections or suspicions if you were under the authority of the Church proper and were working in tandem with Her. Anybody can create a website and imagine monasteries, habits and spiritualities. Until you are recognized as a legitimate and solid individual, with a first and last name, with a mailing address, who has received appropriate approval, you will be under suspicion. At this point, you are the Great Oz, sitting behind a keyboard. It IS disturbing and most unsavory. In helping my daughter find the right community for her life as a cloistered nun, we visited many, many Monasteries across the country. Many of them are in need of new vocations, and do not have the resources to create beautiful websites or answer their mail (or email) in the most timely of ways. I cannot help but wish (and pray) that you would use your obvious talents and spirited imagination to support and hold many of these existing Monasteries. Additionally, there are many, many "new" communities that are in the process of being established, with women and men living in community, working out their Rule, their Spirit, their life. These communities, albeit in the beginning stages, are valid and honest about their situation, and those who are in the process of "founding" them (as another poster indicated) are living the life themselves. This is very different than the creation of "proposed" communities, created via the internet. Like another poster, I am quite alarmed that a moderator has not acted on this. I have had links removed that offer further clarification on real points, and yet, this remains. The next time we should see an "Update" on this subject is when Gemma receives some official status and comes out from behind the curtain. Until then, this must be recognized as a fictitious situation. Sad, but true. Gemma, I will continue to pray for you. May you find a Bishop that will guide you. TradMom[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister_Laurel Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 I am very concerned to see someone putting tpogether eremitical rules willy nilly, drawing from documents all over the place, all without living the life. My own Rule was written and submitted to my diocese and canonists twice. The first time was relatively soon after canon 603 was new (1983), and also right after I had met with the Vicar for Religious for the first few times. It was adequate canonically, and it expressed what I was doing each day, etc and what I felt was necessary to continue doing as a hermit. But I was very much a novice at the life (though formed as a religious), and it reflected this. About 23 years later, maybe a bit less, I revised the Rule and added a number of elements, a theology of the vows, a theology of prayer, a theology of vocation, and on the whole the Rule was subsumed under the Rule of St Benedict and, since I was also a Camaldolese Oblate, breathed with the spirit of the Camaldolese. This Rule took about a month to write and it was in everyway, the fruit of my lived experience in the past two decades. As such it was one of the most formative, consolidating experiences I have had. <STRONG><EM>But let me be clear, I did it because I personally knew that the Rule I had first submitted was inadequate to allow for sufficient growth in the eremitical life; I had outgrown it (long ago in fact), and while it was canonically adequate, it was NOT adequate to really guide one in the eremitical life.<BR></EM></STRONG><BR> As I have written on my blog, a Rule is not just a list of things to do each day, or of instructions on how to live. <STRONG><EM>It is a document which reflects lived experience</EM></STRONG>. While this putative canonist (she has a name, a public role in the church, and that should be used if her advice is to be used here) says everyone draws on other rules and is somewhat correct, this cannot be understood simplistically. One draws on various rules <EM><STRONG>because one's lived experience has done so over time and found that elements in each of them are necessary for this particular person or institute</STRONG></EM>. One does not merely cut and paste from this one or that one in order to produce something that "looks good" and will "pass canonical muster." One cannot substitute others' lived experience for one's own and pass it off as the wisdom of the foundress, etc. Further, if one DOES draw from other Rules, one needs to be very clear they acknowledge explicitly the borrowing they have done.<BR><BR> I have been concerned about the misleading character of the website in question on this thread for some time. I am especially concerned that they have now supposedly developed an "eremitical charism" which is lived out in individual's homes and done under a single Rule. In fact, Canon 603 has occasionally misused by fledgling communities in an attempt to circumvent the stringent requirements Rome has for new foundations. But Canon 603 is for SOLITARY hermits living according to a Rule of Life they themselves have written (the phrase SOLITARY HERMIT is explicitly included in perpetual profession formulae). When these individuals are allowed to come together in Laura's in such cases they would continue to live their individual Rules. (Thus, while there are a couple of exceptions to this extant, canonists today criticize the practice of allowing communities to be formed using canon 603 as a basis, and decry the situation.) There is wisdom in Canon 603. The INDIVIDUAL is to live the life for some time before submitting and certainly before the approval of their Rule. It is to reflect the person's LIVED EXPERIENCE and thus, provide grounds for discerning the individual's vocation, stability, perseverence, theological and spiritual expertise, etc. It is not a matter of cutting a pasting bits of Rules and handing it to someone to live, particularly if one has never lived as a hermit oneself. It is a matter of codifying the lived experience of the desert life, and canon 603 is clear that the hermit herself is to do this work.<BR><BR> Sincerely, <BR>Sister Laurel M O'Neal<BR> Stillsong Hermitage<BR> Diocese of Oakland<BR> <A href="<A href='http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com">http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.comhttp://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com">http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com</A> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister_Laurel Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 (edited) Well, apologies to all for the formatting of my posts. Perhaps I will figure out what I did wrong, and perhaps someone will assists me. In any case, I hope the second one is readable nonetheless. Sincerely, Sister Laurel M O'Neal Stillsong Hermitage Diocese of Oakland http:/notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com Edited August 16, 2008 by SRLAUREL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosamundi Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 [quote name='SRLAUREL' post='1628912' date='Aug 16 2008, 07:45 PM']Well, apologies to all for the formatting of my posts. Perhaps I will figure out what I did wrong, and perhaps someone will assists me. In any case, I hope the second one is readable nonetheless.[/quote] The boards use UBB coding, and not HTML - the main difference that I can see is square brackets for the coding tags - [ and ] - instead of the ones that HTML use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Stanton Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I don't usually post, but just read the various threads. I am familiar with Gemma's work and the Cloister Outreach. She has shared her name and other individuals helping her with those seriously interested in the Cloister Outreach. It is not easy to give up a teaching position (I am a teacher) and moving some where else. It takes time to find a new position. Gemma recognizes that some of us were not quite ready for the cenobitic life at present. She tried to start the cenobitic form, that has turned to the ermetical form. Most of her aspirants have spoken with her about the change. We are not young girls looking for a convent. Some of us have tried religous life before. Gemma communicates through email. I know some of the Phatmass Phorum has their doubts, but she has been very honest with her aspirants. Even in conventional religous life it takes 7-10 years to make final vows. As aspirants we are required to have our own spiritual director to help us enter the life of a hermit. Our spiritual director will help us and the local bishop decide if our journey is on the right road. If you don't like this thread, then please don't read it. This thread is to update possible aspirants and other interested parties. Sorry for any spelling errors, I have just had eye surgery! May you take a leap of faith like the Caananite woman in today's Gospel! Ann Stanton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Dear Pham! I have been reviewing posts on this thread and the Cloisterite website. On a previous post I wrote "Enough of this nonsense!" What I meant was to agree with the poster who said we on this phorum have no right to tell someone what they should or should not do in an imperative or disrespectful manner. I think the questions that have been raised here are fair, and quite legitimate. That being said, in charity, I have these points to make: 1- As far as I'm aware, and please correct if I'm wrong, in most cases the founding of a religious order begins AFTER the work of the order itself. In other words, if a group of women join together with similar ideals to begin a work, such as nursing the sick poor, the religious order develops after the work begins in order to support the work. Most of the founding of orders that I can think of follow this model. Is this correct? IMO, and ONLY IMO, what I have seen written by Gemma is more about "religious life", than a particular work. 2- I was conerned while reading the "Cloister Outreach Foundations" page in which Gemma references recieving "inspirations" and a "mental vision". IMO, it read more like an archaic hagiography than a modern foundation. I think in many cases, if not the majority, men and women who founded religious orders were Saints, declared by the Church. Intimate union with God and an intense prayer life often result in extra ordinary gifts of the Holy Spirit. However, from my knowledge, people who claimed these experiences for themselves WITHOUT a period of intense discernment by a spiritual director or supervising bishop are very suspect. St. Teresa, who lived an intense life of prayer and had many out of the ordinary mystical experiences, submitted perfectly to the judgements of her confessor and religious superiors, because she knew this was the will of God for her. 3- Gemma has stated that she has been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome or Asperger's autism. One of the main diagnostic criteria for evaluation of Asperger's is this: (Taken from [url="http://www.aspergers.com/aspcrit.htm"]http://www.aspergers.com/aspcrit.htm[/url]) [font="Trebuchet MS"] An encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus and [font="Trebuchet MS"][i]2.All-absorbing narrow interest [/i] [i](at least one of the following)[/i] (a) exclusion of other activities (b) repetitive adherence © more rote than meaning One might consider the cloisterite webpage and Gemma's posts in this light. Please understand that I do not wish to say anything that would hurt anyone, but I feel that these are important points. Peace! Kayla[/font] [font="Trebuchet MS"] [/font][/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister_Laurel Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Ann Stanton' post='1629255' date='Aug 16 2008, 08:04 PM']I don't usually post, but just read the various threads. I am familiar with Gemma's work and the Cloister Outreach. She has shared her name and other individuals helping her with those seriously interested in the Cloister Outreach. It is not easy to give up a teaching position (I am a teacher) and moving some where else. It takes time to find a new position. Gemma recognizes that some of us were not quite ready for the cenobitic life at present. She tried to start the cenobitic form, that has turned to the ermetical form. Most of her aspirants have spoken with her about the change. We are not young girls looking for a convent. Some of us have tried religous life before. Gemma communicates through email. I know some of the Phatmass Phorum has their doubts, but she has been very honest with her aspirants. Even in conventional religous life it takes 7-10 years to make final vows. As aspirants we are required to have our own spiritual director to help us enter the life of a hermit. Our spiritual director will help us and the local bishop decide if our journey is on the right road. If you don't like this thread, then please don't read it. This thread is to update possible aspirants and other interested parties. Sorry for any spelling errors, I have just had eye surgery! May you take a leap of faith like the Caananite woman in today's Gospel! Ann Stanton]][/quote] In the history of monastic life (I am excepting the Desert Fathers and Mothers) the eremitical life is seen as the culmination of the cenobitic form of life. It has been the case for 17 centuries that hermits are generally drawn from those who are experienced in the cenobitic life, mature in it, and ready for greater solitude. It has never been a vocation for those who are "unready for cenobitic life," nor is it meant to be a stage on the way to forming a community. What you have described sounds exactly like the situation canonists today are decrying: the misuse of canon 603 for people who mean to become a community but who are not yet ready, or who are unwilling to go through the stringent requirements Rome has for such foundations. It seems an easier way to get individuals professed under canon 603 and then gather them under a common Rule, but this is not how canon 603 reads, nor is it how it is meant to be used. Canon 603 is clear that the individual hermit writes her own Rule. It is also clear that hermits may come together in Lauras, but this still means that each hermit has his or her own Rule which s/he has written herself and which reflects her lived experience. Finally it makes clear that the hermit makes vows in the hands of her Bishop, and thus he becomes her legitimate superior, NO ONE ELSE unless he appoints someone as his own delegate. Canon 603 requires perpetual profession, of course, but in this profession the hermit says clearly that she wishes to respond to the grace of an eremitical vocation as a SOLITARY HERMIT. This is not redundant language. It is stated this way because of the tendency some have shown to want to misuse the canon to circumvent the steps required in cenobitic foundations. The notion that persons who "are not ready for cenobitic life" are embracing eremitical life is wrongheaded. The vocation is not a stepping stone to cenobitism; it is instead, according to monastic tradition, something prepared for by cenobitic life, and it has a dignity an charism all its own. Candidates for eremitical profession generally have to demonstrate the capacity to live in community. As someone else has noted, most dioceses require formation in this and arrange for it if the person does not have a background in religious life. So, the above post is troubling to me personally for several reasons. To think that because a cenobitic expression of life is not possible yet or some are "not ready for it," they turn instead to eremitical life is problematical. To hear that canon 603 is being used as a kind of "fallback" position, or used to circumvent the process of cenobitical foundation is problematical. Finally, to hear that individuals are turning to canon 603 in a kind of calculated way without FIRST discovering a genuine call to eremitical life and SPONTANEOUSLY turning to canon 603 because of this is really disturbing. It is certainly possible for one to discover such a vocation "accidentally," but that a number of people are taking this route at the same time is disturbing. It suggests no real appreciation of the unique charism of the diocesan hermit. Finally, to hear people referring to themselves as "her aspirants" is simply distasteful to me personally, no matter who the "founder" is. One is an aspirant to a life; one is not someone else's aspirant --- even one's own Bishop, for instance, and under canon 603 the Bishop IS the legitimate superior, as already noted. Sincerely, Sister Laurel M O'Neal Stillsong Hermitage Edited August 17, 2008 by SRLAUREL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWIE Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 THANK YOU St. Laurel. I hope once and for all this settles the "cloisterite" subject. You just can't make these things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Therese Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 (edited) [quote]THANK YOU St. Laurel.[/quote] Instant canonization! Edited August 17, 2008 by Saint Therese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puellapaschalis Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 [quote name='SRLAUREL' post='1629474' date='Aug 17 2008, 10:08 AM']In the history of monastic life (I am excepting the Desert Fathers and Mothers) the eremitical life is seen as the culmination of the cenobitic form of life. It has been the case for 17 centuries that hermits are generally drawn from those who are experienced in the cenobitic life, mature in it, and ready for greater solitude.[/quote] Yes; when I read Ann Staton's post the chapter of St. Benedict's Rule jumped into my head about the four different types of monks. Two types are effectively good-for-nothings, then you have cenobites, and after many years some cenobites are led into the eremitical life. Now I suppose it's true St. Benedict could be wrong, or that his generalisation doesn't hold for all, but as someone who thinks he's a kick-ass guy who knows human nature better than most the idea of being a hermit in order to prepare for community life strikes me as putting the cart very firmly before the horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister_Laurel Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 [quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1629892' date='Aug 17 2008, 03:01 PM']Yes; when I read Ann Staton's post the chapter of St. Benedict's Rule jumped into my head about the four different types of monks. Two types are effectively good-for-nothings, then you have cenobites, and after many years some cenobites are led into the eremitical life. Now I suppose it's true St. Benedict could be wrong, or that his generalisation doesn't hold for all, but as someone who thinks he's a kick-ass guy who knows human nature better than most the idea of being a hermit in order to prepare for community life strikes me as putting the cart very firmly before the horse.[/quote] Yes. More, it is not actually discerning a call to eremitical life, nor does it demonstrate an appreciation of the dignity and importance of the eremitical vocation today per se. I am very clear that diocesan hermits have a somewhat unique charism; they are distinguished from hermits belonging to communities or monasteries, for instance, because of their unique position in their diocese and parish. In particular, the parish is the hermit's immediate community; they support her vocation and are the matrix out of which she grows. She learns to love more deeply and perfectly in her relationships with them, and they have the unique responsibility for aiding the fulfillment of a vocation to the consecrated life. Further, in a world where so many people MUST live isolated lives, whether because of illness, age, or whatever, the diocesan hermit in particular makes particular claims about solitude, human nature, grace, and the possibilities of redeeming a life that would otherwise be isolated and relatively meaningless in ordinary terms. She says that isolation can be transformed into true solitude, that a life which seems fruitless or worthless in this world's terms is instead of infinite value and participates in dimensions of reality our world often does not know or esteem. This witness seems to me to be considerably less when a "hermit" is merely embracing the life as a step towards something else. It is wrong to use canon 603 and eremitical life as a calculated entrance into cenobitical life for which one is simply "not yet ready". It is wrong because it completely disregards the reality and need for the TRUE eremitical vocation, and the unique charism of the vocation as well. Simply because one lives alone does not make one a hermit. Living alone until one is ready for cenobitic life especially does not make one a hermit --- even if one does all the right things and has minimal difficulty with solitude, silence, etc. One is a hermit when one begins to live solitude and the other values and dimensions of the life consciously as one's TRUEST IDENTITY and AS CALLED BY GOD. One MUST KNOW THIS DISTINCT CALL and IDENTITY deep within oneself. Embracing the eremitical life, especially in its diocesan form, involves embracing a call which is distinct and significant in today's world precisely because it is not cenobitical. One does not embrace it as a fallback position or a halfway point on the way to something else. One does not embrace it so long as one considers one is really called to something else, anymore than one embraces a calling to single life while imagining and thinking in terms of eventually marrying. Canon 603 was meant to recognize and mediate a TRUE CALLING, a unique and significant form of consecrated life. It was not meant to be used to circumvent the demanding process for creating a community, or for dignifying a life which is "not ready for" other forms of consecrated life. Whew! Yes, I feel REALLY strongly about this! Sincerely, Sister Laurel M O'Neal Stillsong Hermitage Diocese of Oakland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister_Laurel Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 [quote name='SRLAUREL' date='Aug 19 2008, 01:30 AM' post='1631424'].]] It is wrong to use canon 603 and eremitical life as a calculated entrance into cenobitical life for which one is simply "not yet ready". It is wrong because it completely disregards the reality and need for the TRUE eremitical vocation, and the unique charism of the vocation as well. Simply because one lives alone does not make one a hermit. Living alone until one is ready for cenobitic life especially does not make one a hermit --- even if one does all the right things and has minimal difficulty with solitude, silence, etc. One is a hermit when one begins to live solitude and the other values and dimensions of the life consciously as one's TRUEST IDENTITY and AS CALLED BY GOD. One MUST KNOW THIS DISTINCT CALL and IDENTITY deep within oneself. ]] One additional comment. I was not a hermit the moment I imagined myself living the life, or the moment the vision of the life captured my imagination. I was not a hermit simply because I was living alone eventhough I was a Sister and vowed. One must assume all the rights and responsibilities of the life in a conscious way to actually be a hermit. One might have been living in the very same way for years apart from this intentionality and still not be a hermit. Just as the trappings do not make a hermit, neither does the dream make one a founder. (A charism is a gift quality of something SUBTANTIVE . It is not an imagined gift but something REAL.) Sister Laurel M O'Neal, erem dio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister_Laurel Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 [quote name='Ann Stanton' date='16 August 2008 - 07:04 PM' timestamp='1218938647' post='1629255'] I don't usually post, but just read the various threads. I am familiar with Gemma's work and the Cloister Outreach. She has shared her name and other individuals helping her with those seriously interested in the Cloister Outreach. It is not easy to give up a teaching position (I am a teacher) and moving some where else. It takes time to find a new position. Gemma recognizes that some of us were not quite ready for the cenobitic life at present. She tried to start the cenobitic form, that has turned to the ermetical form. Most of her aspirants have spoken with her about the change. We are not young girls looking for a convent. Some of us have tried religous life before. Gemma communicates through email. I know some of the Phatmass Phorum has their doubts, but she has been very honest with her aspirants. Even in conventional religous life it takes 7-10 years to make final vows. As aspirants we are required to have our own spiritual director to help us enter the life of a hermit. Our spiritual director will help us and the local bishop decide if our journey is on the right road. If you don't like this thread, then please don't read it. This thread is to update possible aspirants and other interested parties. Sorry for any spelling errors, I have just had eye surgery! [/quote] Dear Ann, I hope then that you have verified Cloister Outreach's status with the Diocese of Charlotte and with the hermit-canonist working there in their Tribunal. A friend of mine has recently done so (both by email and by phone to be certain the initial information was not mistaken) and claims to be working under the supervision and with the approval or encouragement of the Bishop/diocese have been denied --- by both the Chancellor and the Canonist in question. (The Chancellor denied knowledge of the person in question; the canonist knew the person but denied working with her, much less supervising her project with hermits. As for the Bishop. . . well, you draw the logical conclusions here.) Despite the tremendous individuality involved, and the place of life in creating hermits, anyone seeking to enter religious or consecrated eremitical life needs to do so through established routes. Those who aspire to become hermits under Canon 603 are seeking to become SOLITARY hermits, not members of a community and can only do so in their own dioceses and under the supervision of their own Bishop and those he appoints. Further, it is questionable to me that those aspiring to become hermits and seeking [i]seriously[/i] to prepare for eremitical vows would place their formation in the hands of a non-hermit or non-religious who has never made or lived either eremitical solitude or religious vows. Afterall, formation is a process of socialization into a particular lifestyle, and an integrated program for becoming a particular person within that lifestyle. It involves more than an internet reading list supervised long-distance by email by someone who does not even understand or know the life firsthand! Consider whether you really believe that ANY Bishop or diocese (Formation people, Vicars for Religious, et al.) would take such a "formation program" seriously! (Consider, for that matter what Canon Law says about novitiates, who can be admitted and who undertakes the formation of others! cf CC 646-652) There is a story in the NT about the blind leading others into a pit. Jesus told the story for a reason, and there is no reason to think that it has ceased to be pertinent in many contemporary situations. This is one of those I think. We are all liable to follow someone or some organization/religious community promising something we desire greatly. We may eventually grow beyond this, but the chances are we will not come out unscathed! I would seriously suggest that Cloister Outreach "aspirants" use that lection for meditation. Afterwards, I would suggest they contact Sister Sheila Richardson, ESA at the Diocese of Charlotte with concerns and questions. Sincerely, Sister Laurel M O'Neal, Erem Dio Stillsong Hermitage Diocese of Oakland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linnie Posted March 6, 2010 Share Posted March 6, 2010 [quote name='SRLAUREL' date='06 March 2010 - 11:46 AM' timestamp='1267897586' post='2067544'] Dear Ann, I hope then that you have verified Cloister Outreach's status with the Diocese of Charlotte and with the hermit-canonist working there in their Tribunal. A friend of mine has recently done so (both by email and by phone to be certain the initial information was not mistaken) and claims to be working under the supervision and with the approval or encouragement of the Bishop/diocese have been denied --- by both the Chancellor and the Canonist in question. (The Chancellor denied knowledge of the person in question; the canonist knew the person but denied working with her, much less supervising her project with hermits. As for the Bishop. . . well, you draw the logical conclusions here.) Despite the tremendous individuality involved, and the place of life in creating hermits, anyone seeking to enter religious or consecrated eremitical life needs to do so through established routes. Those who aspire to become hermits under Canon 603 are seeking to become SOLITARY hermits, not members of a community and can only do so in their own dioceses and under the supervision of their own Bishop and those he appoints. Further, it is questionable to me that those aspiring to become hermits and seeking [i]seriously[/i] to prepare for eremitical vows would place their formation in the hands of a non-hermit or non-religious who has never made or lived either eremitical solitude or religious vows. Afterall, formation is a process of socialization into a particular lifestyle, and an integrated program for becoming a particular person within that lifestyle. It involves more than an internet reading list supervised long-distance by email by someone who does not even understand or know the life firsthand! Consider whether you really believe that ANY Bishop or diocese (Formation people, Vicars for Religious, et al.) would take such a "formation program" seriously! (Consider, for that matter what Canon Law says about novitiates, who can be admitted and who undertakes the formation of others! cf CC 646-652) There is a story in the NT about the blind leading others into a pit. Jesus told the story for a reason, and there is no reason to think that it has ceased to be pertinent in many contemporary situations. This is one of those I think. We are all liable to follow someone or some organization/religious community promising something we desire greatly. We may eventually grow beyond this, but the chances are we will not come out unscathed! I would seriously suggest that Cloister Outreach "aspirants" use that lection for meditation. Afterwards, I would suggest they contact Sister Sheila Richardson, ESA at the Diocese of Charlotte with concerns and questions. Sincerely, Sister Laurel M O'Neal, Erem Dio Stillsong Hermitage Diocese of Oakland [/quote] Thank you Sister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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