Cloisterite Foundation Update

[Gemma]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1570872' date='Jun 13 2008, 10:08 PM']I think Laudem Gloriae is referring to other new charisms that we know. The Sisters of Life were trained by a Dominican, the family of St. John the same, the DSMME's were founded by four professed sisters, the CFRs by professed friars, the new traditional Norbertine nuns travelled to several (if not all) existing Norbertine cloisters and did a canonical novitiate in an existing community.

As it appears, the status quo seems to be that formation by professed religious is the way to go, and considering the very intense, tender process that formation is, that sounds like a good thing to me. If you're so far in the starting-up process that you're planning to have your aspirants begin the life this calendar year (as you have stated), you should probably be very, very quick with taking care of their formation.[/quote]

One has to look at the individual circumstances around the foundation.

The Sisters of Life were founded by a Cardinal who had others at his beck and call.

The Dominican Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist were, in fact, trained, but they also had to meet as a group to discuss their plans before initiating the project. Then, they had to find a bishop who would support them.

The Franciscan Friars of the Renewal--they call themselves a renewal, when in fact, they were a reform from within the Franciscan order. Again, a group of religious who would've needed to go off and meet together before leaving their respective communities to form the CFRs.

The Norbertines--very close to my heart, as in Cloister Outreach's early days, I had written Norbertine nuns in Europe, asking them to make an American foundation. Nobody would do it. I told Jesus, "You're probably going to have to ask five American women to do this." And so He did. That group went to the Buffalo OP nuns for their novitiate--slept in the monastery attic. They also traveled via van to various monasteries, learning about cottage industries. A few of them traveled to Europe to make the Visitation of the monasteries, which is a yearly requirement. I think they may have been invited to do so by the Norbertine Father Visitator.

It's like I said, I know that our aspirants need proper novitiate training. Our eremetical focus is so new, though, that I'm still researching how it's done.

When I stated October 10 of this year as being the "start" date--that was simply for gathering the community into a cenobitic setting to start living the rule in community. An existing group, who has "found their footing" or "gotten their sea legs" and has the entire paperwork package together, is one who can petition the bishop for recognition as a private association of the faithful with the intention of becoming an institute of religious life. (One also has to have a tax entity before making petition).

That may or may not happen on October 10. Our canonist has just asked for some documentation, which I have to go gather.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Gemma]

[quote name='tnavarro61' post='1571019' date='Jun 14 2008, 08:48 AM']So they are all asking what I want to ask.

1. Who will take care of your aspirants? How will you be formed?
2. You didn't ask your bishop, probably, from the beginnings of this proposed order. Who is taking care of this sensitive case? You know the role of a bishop, right? And probably any spiritual director will recommend you to consult your bishop first.
3. How can you plan so many religious order? Blessed Giacomo Alberione didn't founded nor probably planned to found many orders at the same time. He founded the Society of Saint Paul first, then realizing that he needs to found another order, he founded the Daughters of Saint Paul.
4. How could you renew an order without being in the order?
5. How could you make plans for a religious order, as if it is already established? You say, the Congregation of the Miraculous Medal will renew, etc. etc.

Gemma, my tone here is not annoying. I am sincere, full of curiosity and I don't want to offend you. I am using imperfect Filipino English. I think they may appear offensive to others.

And Gemma, you have high school kids! How can you start founding with kids?[/quote]

1. We're still working on that. Like I've said, we're new to the eremetic path, so it's going to take some time.

2. Canon 605 doesn't apply in this case. That's for groups like Focolare, Opus Dei, etc. I am working with our canonist as to when to approach the bishop. Someone with a communications deficit like myself doesn't go barging in on a bishop, saying "I'm founding an order." I have to have the documents in hand, and be very prepared for questioning.

3. I see social problems, I pray over it. The solution comes to me as a charism. After my surgery last year, where I lost the physical ability to be a mother on Mother's Day weekend, I was so imbued with God's grace, and I understood that the social justice concerns would be taken care of through the CCMMs, and the individual charisms would be like ameobias splitting off of that congregation.

4. RENEWING an order means to bring a charism out of extinction. REFORMING an order comes from within. I found those definitions in the Catholic Encyclopedia. What is needed are the Rule and Constitutions, plus an horarium. Once those are in place, then the aspirants, convent, and remunerative work are to be put into place. They live the life, and when they are ready, they make petition to the bishop. Same process as before.

5. Where is there already a Congregation of Charity of the Miraculous Medal? Please show me. I think the answer to this question is in #3.

Cloister Outreach has business hours, believe it or not. I usually start working around 7am--after breakfast and prayers, and put everything away when the boys walk in the door from school. Since it's mostly sit-down work, I have to get up to do some household chores to keep from getting stiff. I live an eremetical life anyway, since gas prices are so high, I don't go anywhere except the gym (almost daily) and the grocery (twice weekly). I have a Franklin daily planner, plus a large wipe-off calendar so everyone can see what's going on. My prayer life is mostly during the hours that the family is not here. When they are here, taking care of them is my prayer.

My oldest son had honors English this past high school year, and he is registered for more honors classes this coming year. My other son has honors World History this coming year, plus track (he plans to be a sprinter), which will only be for a couple of months. I plan Cloister Outreach and the Cloisterite/CCMM activities around that.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Guest ambrose]

see, I think "cloister" is a full time thing. This is just my opinion, but I don't think a cloister could have "business hours". I respect what you are saying: that you are responsible to your family's time. But to consider a cloister a "day job" just feels to contradict the very life that your charism promotes and prays for.

As I said, that's just my opinion. I pray you'll find your true peace, Gemma.

[Gemma]

[quote name='ambrose' post='1571488' date='Jun 14 2008, 11:01 PM']see, I think "cloister" is a full time thing. This is just my opinion, but I don't think a cloister could have "business hours". I respect what you are saying: that you are responsible to your family's time. But to consider a cloister a "day job" just feels to contradict the very life that your charism promotes and prays for.

As I said, that's just my opinion. I pray you'll find your true peace, Gemma.[/quote]

Cloister Outreach is my apostolate. [url="http://cloisters.tripod.com/"]http://cloisters.tripod.com/[/url]

The hermits are in their own homes. Even a novice master has time off.

Once this gets going, and everyone sees how it works, I'm sure everyone will start to understand.

I have my true peace, Ambrose. Thank you.

Blessings,
Gemma

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='Gemma' post='1571056' date='Jun 14 2008, 04:04 PM']The Norbertines--very close to my heart, as in Cloister Outreach's early days, I had written Norbertine nuns in Europe, asking them to make an American foundation. Nobody would do it. I told Jesus, "You're probably going to have to ask five American women to do this." And so He did. That group went to the Buffalo OP nuns for their novitiate--slept in the monastery attic. They also traveled via van to various monasteries, learning about cottage industries. A few of them traveled to Europe to make the Visitation of the monasteries, which is a yearly requirement. I think they may have been invited to do so by the Norbertine Father Visitator.[/quote]

Gemma, I think this is an example of what the others are a little concerned about. As I understand it, the only person who can invite a community to make a foundation in a different country (or even a different diocese) is the bishop. Your zeal and passion for religious life is wonderful to see, but that doesn't really alter the fact that it's not your place to go issuing invitations regarding new foundations. Perhaps the Norbertine nuns did pray over your request and came to realise that God wanted them to remain in Europe? We have precious few religious over here compared to America. You are indirectly saying that they were unresponsive to the will of God, forcing you to tell Jesus to get five American women to begin the foundation.

You may just not be expressing your thoughts as you would like to express them. I know what it's like not to be able to make things sound right, particularly when I'm under stress and struggling to process information. I don't want to upset you or make you more flustered, but some of the authority that you try to exercise doesn't really seem to sit with your own beautiful vocation as a wife and mother.

[Gemma]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1571747' date='Jun 15 2008, 01:07 PM']Gemma, I think this is an example of what the others are a little concerned about. As I understand it, the only person who can invite a community to make a foundation in a different country (or even a different diocese) is the bishop. Your zeal and passion for religious life is wonderful to see, but that doesn't really alter the fact that it's not your place to go issuing invitations regarding new foundations. Perhaps the Norbertine nuns did pray over your request and came to realise that God wanted them to remain in Europe? We have precious few religious over here compared to America. You are indirectly saying that they were unresponsive to the will of God, forcing you to tell Jesus to get five American women to begin the foundation.

You may just not be expressing your thoughts as you would like to express them. I know what it's like not to be able to make things sound right, particularly when I'm under stress and struggling to process information. I don't want to upset you or make you more flustered, but some of the authority that you try to exercise doesn't really seem to sit with your own beautiful vocation as a wife and mother.[/quote]

As a single person (nearly 20 years ago) still discerning my own vocation, and Coordinator of the newly-founded Cloister Outreach, I started communicating with the Norbertine Fathers about bringing Norbertine Canonesses to America. They had been trying to get some of the European nuns to make a foundation, so I "added some weight to get the car up the icy hill," so to say, and wrote one monastery. The nuns from the Netherlands--Sint Katharinadaal (sp?)--wrote back a lovely letter, saying they were a vital community but were not in a position to make a new foundation. "It is a pity," said the prioress. I was getting the impression that the Norbertine Canonesses wanted to make an American foundation, but just weren't in a position to do so. The Norbertine prior told me he had been negotiating with the Polish Norberine Canonesses, but those talks didn't produce anything (obviously).

In a fit of. . . frustration, I guess is the word, I kinda threw my hands up and said out loud, "Well, Lord, if you're really wanting Norbertine Canonesses in America, I guess you're just going to have to pick out five American women to do it." I walked away from the situation and didn't think anything else of it. I don't remember how I learned that there was a community forming, but I nearly fell out of my chair when I learned that not too long after I said that--only a couple of years--five American women started studying with the Norbertine fathers in California, and had turned a condo near the priory into a convent.

It is common practice for orders established in America to invite another branch of said order to make a foundation near their own property. All that is needed is the local bishop's permission. In this case, there didn't need to be a bishop in the equation, because the prior in DePere, WI, is a bishop. (I hope I've remembered that correctly. If not, someone please correct that).

I say such things not to sound like an authority--"nihil sum" (I am nothing) is my personal motto--but to ENCOURAGE people in their prayers. I was raised Baptist, and I was always taught to share my faith to build up others in theirs. So, what's the problem???

Religious communities have been brought into countries with the assistance of layfolk. Happened all the time in the middle ages. In this case, if I had been talking with, for instance, the cloistered Conceptionistas of Portugal, I would advise them which dioceses didn't have cloistered nuns. They could, in turn, write that bishop, to see if he would accept their foundation. Such is one of the purposes of Cloister Outreach's website--to help bishops who don't have cloisters to find charisms not repped in the U.S.

HTH.

Blessings,
Gemma

[inperpetuity]

I have been trying not to get involved with this ridiculous thread, but I can't take it any longer. Upon whose authority does anyone speak with when they tell another member of the Church what they should or shouldn't be praying for, and insinuating that they are not somehow being faithful to their vocation? How exactly does anyone actually know that? If "others" don't agree with the apostolate someone believes they are called to, then don't get involved with it, but don't we have lives to live and vocations of our own to discern? If this person is being faithful to the Church and Her teachings, why not let them be? What are we so afraid of? If it's from God, it will grow, if not, it won't. I don't see any error being spread here, and many in the hierarchy can certainly be taken to task for that!! So, rather than attacking someone who is obviously trying to love God and do something good for His Church because we don't happen to agree with it, why not pray for them instead? May God have mercy upon us all.

[Saint Therese]

[quote]I have been trying not to get involved with this ridiculous thread, but I can't take it any longer. Upon whose authority does anyone speak with when they tell another member of the Church what they should or shouldn't be praying for, and insinuating that they are not somehow being faithful to their vocation? How exactly does anyone actually know that? If "others" don't agree with the apostolate someone believes they are called to, then don't get involved with it, but don't we have lives to live and vocations of our own to discern? If this person is being faithful to the Church and Her teachings, why not let them be? What are we so afraid of? If it's from God, it will grow, if not, it won't. I don't see any error being spread here, and many in the hierarchy can certainly be taken to task for that!! So, rather than attacking someone who is obviously trying to love God and do something good for His Church because we don't happen to agree with it, why not pray for them instead? May God have mercy upon us all.[/quote]

Amen! Enough of this nonsense!

[Mary-Kathryn]

[quote name='inperpetuity' post='1572020' date='Jun 15 2008, 05:29 PM']I have been trying not to get involved with this ridiculous thread, but I can't take it any longer. Upon whose authority does anyone speak with when they tell another member of the Church what they should or shouldn't be praying for, and insinuating that they are not somehow being faithful to their vocation? How exactly does anyone actually know that? If "others" don't agree with the apostolate someone believes they are called to, then don't get involved with it, but don't we have lives to live and vocations of our own to discern? If this person is being faithful to the Church and Her teachings, why not let them be? What are we so afraid of? If it's from God, it will grow, if not, it won't. I don't see any error being spread here, and many in the hierarchy can certainly be taken to task for that!! So, rather than attacking someone who is obviously trying to love God and do something good for His Church because we don't happen to agree with it, why not pray for them instead? May God have mercy upon us all.[/quote]

I haven't seen any attacks ( though I may be wrong here, sometimes its hard to read intent in writing) what I am seeing is good honest questions. Gemma seems to be answering them to my way of thinking The concern is valid though. If someone puts out ( via internet, forums etc) religious orders for young women to discern with, then questions have a right to be asked. I don''t know of any good mother (like me) who wouldn't tell their daughters to ask all the right (and very tough) questions. So I think asking who are you? How are you going to do this? Does the bishop know and if no, why not? Who is in charge? Who is going to teach me? To a mother's eye, these are all perfectly legitimate questions that Gemma is answering one by one.

I wouldn't think any differently even if it was Rosalind Moss' new community, Young women need to ask!

Edited June 18, 2008 by Mary-Kathryn

[TotusTuusMaria]

Very true about the good questions. It is good to ask questions, and these have been good questions. And Gemma has answered them very well too.

I believe though that the thread went from asking good questions and answering good questions to a definite insinuation that Gemma might not be being faithful to her vocation and comments that, I took, to be very authoritative in telling Gemma what she should or shouldn’t pray for and how she should live out her vocation as a wife and mother and, the vocation she believes God to be calling her too, as a foundress. I didn’t know anyone had the place to make those comments expect God and one’s superiors.

I found what inperpetuity said to be very well said. “If it's from God, it will grow, if not, it won't.”

There is a place for questions. Tough questions have to and should be asked. Tough questions, from my reading though (and sometimes it is difficult to read rightly what another intends to be saying), didn’t seem to be the only thing being posted here.

[Gemma]

Thanks for the feedback on the responses I gave. I was clueless as to whether or not I was being effective. Some of the communication was offensive and intrusive, though, and where I was being accused of being a spiritual director, somone turned around and did the same to me. I did not think that charitable.

To update everyone: I have five who are definitely committed to starting hermitages, and I'm waiting to hear back from 8 others. As they ask questions, I will be getting answers from our canonist, and will be starting an FAQ page on the Cloisterite website.

I'm also trying to be as charitable as possible when I say this: If I am not faithful to inspiration, which I believe is from the Holy Ghost, and follow man and his opinions, which may not be from God, then do I not commit a form of idolatry?

When in doubt, pray. 'Tis the charitable thing to do.

Blessings,
Gemma

[jkaands]

For the Latinists out there:
There's a saying in medicine:
[i][b]
primum non nocere.[/b][/i]
Above all, do no harm.

A wise and experienced diocesan hermit , Sr. Laurel, ( member moniker SRLAUREL) has contributed in this forum in April, 2008, and her intelligent and informed, albeit few, posts should be consulted by anyone interested in learning more about life as a hermit of any description. I would think that the guidance of an experienced hermit to be invaluable to anyone considering this sort of life.

She is:

Sister Laurel M O'Neal
Stillsong Hermitage
Diocese of Oakland

Her blog is: [url="http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com/"]http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com/[/url]

There's also a quarterly about hermitage life, "Raven's Bread", [url="http://www.op.org/ravensbread/"]http://www.op.org/ravensbread/[/url]
--which cost only $10.00/year, with issues available online at the website.

[EWIE]

[quote name='Gemma' date='Jun 18 2008, 10:05 AM' post='1574961']
To update everyone: I have five who are definitely committed to starting hermitages, and I'm waiting to hear back from 8 others.

That is good news Gemma.

Are these five of an age where by the time they have gone through all the necessary preparations, they will still be young enough to be flexible?

Where will they receive their original formation?
The Angelic Doctor St Thomas, suggests that socia1 life, indeed community life, is a prerequisite.The Bishop usually requires that a potential hermit, experience formation in community, preferably a cloistered order. All of my canonical hermit friends were either first in a religious community from the git-go, or were asked to take their formation in one. Particularly the canonical novitiate year.
Formation for the eremetical life is an entire differant ballgame than it is for the cenobitic life. The responsibilities are quite differant as are the dangers that the vocation entails.

Will the hermits be considered diocesean? Will the vows be public or private?
Since a Hermit professed according to Canon 603 is not a member of a religious institute as such, it is important to be aware of the nature of a vow outside the context of a recognized religious institute.

Canon 1191 n.1 states: "A vow is a deliberate and free promise made to God concerning a possible and better good which must be fulfilled by reason of the virtue of religion." One must have reached the age of reason and not be otherwise forbidden by law from making a vow, and the vow must be free of"grave and unjust fear or fraud" Canon 1192 n.l is important because it defines public and personal vows: "A vow is public if it is accepted in the name of the Church by a legitimate superior; otherwise it is private." Since Canon 603 requires public profession "in the hands of the diocessm bishop", the bishop is the "legitimate superior" who receives the vow in the name of the Church. Althouugh the code does not explicitly mention dispensation from vows for a publicly professed Hermit, Canon 691 (which gives a diocesan bishop authority to dispense members of congregationss of diocesan right from vows) would presumably confer the same right in regard to Hermits.

What Rule or Plan of Life has been decided upon?
Canon 1194 is also important. It states: "A vow ceases when the time appointed for the fillfillment of its obligation has passed, when there is a substantial change in the matter promised or when the condition on which the vow depends or the purpose for which it was made no longer exists; it also ceases through dispensation or commutation." [b]Here the "plan of life" mentioned in Canon 603[/b] n.2 is extremely important because the vows made to the diocesan bishop will be based on living out that plan - not in an abstract profession of values. Thus, a Hermit undertakes a public and concrete commitment and lifestyle in a particular location under the authorily of the diocesan bishop.

Who will have ultimate responsibility for the members. (as in the buck stops here) For their physical and spiritual needs. Obviously is can't be you for a variety of reasons. Who will have the authority for final acceptance of these members.

Who is your Formator? Again obviously it can't be you.

Who is your Canonist?

What will their self supporting means be?

About how long do you think that these plans will sit in Rome before being given some sort of official status?

Thank you,

[Brother Ed]

[quote name='Gemma' post='1574961' date='Jun 18 2008, 10:05 AM']Thanks for the feedback on the responses I gave. I was clueless as to whether or not I was being effective. Some of the communication was offensive and intrusive, though, and where I was being accused of being a spiritual director, somone turned around and did the same to me. I did not think that charitable.

To update everyone: I have five who are definitely committed to starting hermitages, and I'm waiting to hear back from 8 others. As they ask questions, I will be getting answers from our canonist, and will be starting an FAQ page on the Cloisterite website.

I'm also trying to be as charitable as possible when I say this: If I am not faithful to inspiration, which I believe is from the Holy Ghost, and follow man and his opinions, which may not be from God, then do I not commit a form of idolatry?

When in doubt, pray. 'Tis the charitable thing to do.

Blessings,
Gemma[/quote]


Many Blessings to you Gemma.
I have been following everything daily. It is so wonderful to see people open to the Way of the Lord. Gemma, please continue keeping your heart and soul open to His Wisdom. I am so happy for you. Please know that you and also those who are being called to live a life of a hermit will be in my daily prayers.
The Holy Spirit is truly blessing us with "New Renewals" in the church.

Pax et Bonum,
Br. Ed

[EWIE]

[quote name='Gemma' date='Jun 18 2008, 10:05 AM' post='1574961']
Thanks for the feedback on the responses I gave. I was clueless as to whether ot not I have been effective.

Gemma, thank you for taking the time to respond to these questions.
I have one more......Will a copy of the eremitcal rule be available to anyone?

ps. congratulations on your sons achievements. You must be very proud of him.