Cloisterite Foundation Update

[EWIE]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1544686' date='May 27 2008, 02:40 AM']although it is difficult not to feel slightly hurt and angry at your implicit suggestion that those of us who don't feel things in the same way as you do aren't in love with Jesus. After all, if impulsivity is a measure of love, where does that leave people like me?[/quote]

Here in the corner with me, I guess. Didja bring any chocolate?
You have taken the words right out of my mouth. Thank you for all you have written. You have expressed it so well.

[Gemma]

[quote name='HollyDolly' post='1544792' date='May 27 2008, 11:08 AM'] For the Cloisterettes perhasp the best thing to do would be study the rules of St.Augustine,St.Benedict,St.Francis ,and St.Dominic,as these are public domain so to speak,and have proven themselves over the centuries.You could use one of these rules of life for the Cloisterettes and no one would care
and perhasp the superior generals of these communities could offer some valubale advice.

It's hard to give everything up for someone and move from place to place,because you love them.
My dad was in the US AirForce for 33 years,and whereever he went ,we went too.
It was probably the same in the days of the Apostles,who beside preaching,must have done some maunel labor to
to earn money for food and shelter for the family.

There are many things invovled in founding a community,and I believe the bible says The Lord helps them who help
themselves. The community needs to look into health care for it's members for example.How are they going to afford the group premiums,after all,we are not like Canada,England,etc.where there is national health coverage for all,and even private insurance if you want it.
If a member leaves,they have to have some money to start to support themselves with when they leave,which I assume is where a dowry comes in.
For whatever reasons,new communities fail.Perhasp the timing wasn't right,or God decided the members would be better off in the secular world, or there is much opposition from church authorities.Hard to say.
If they did some good for the short time they were here,then may God be praised for trying .
There was a community founded in Panna Maria ,texas known as the Sisters of the Immaculate Conception,also called Blue Sisters from their habit.They were founded by some Sisters of Divine Providence of San Antonio to teach the Polish and German children of the area.However they disbanded due to internal conflicts with members i believe.
The sisters went and joined other communities,this was back in the 1880s.
If someone spends time in the convent and leaves during the postulancy or noviate,it doesn't mean they are a bad person,it may just mean the community they joined wasn't right for them.
God is trying to steer them in another direction.The time wasn't wasted,and they can use their experiences there throughout the rest of their life.
There is just so much invovled in this,one just wants to make sure that they are truly following God's wishes.[/quote]

I'm in the process of retyping the rule--which came from Saints Augustine, Benedict, Albert of Jerusalem, Francis, Clare, Colette, Francis de Sales, Jane de Chantal, and Paul of the Cross. I first penned it on Mother Seton's feast day 20 or so years ago.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Gemma]

[quote name='EWIE' post='1544785' date='May 27 2008, 10:53 AM']I have them all as I had to research them myself at one time. Let me know what ones you found and if you are missing any, I will send them to you[/quote]

I found one really good rule online, written by a Dominican. Has three parts, and it alternates between Spanish and English.

Then I found that of St. Columba; and the OSB Cam oblates; and the Carthusians.

Would there be any others?

Blessings & thanks for your assistance,
Gemma

[gloriagurl]

[quote name='EWIE' post='1544804' date='May 27 2008, 11:24 AM']Here in the corner with me, I guess. Didja bring any chocolate?
You have taken the words right out of my mouth. Thank you for all you have written. You have expressed it so well.[/quote]


While I realize my previous post did not add anything practical or concrete to this discussion, my intention in posting it was to show (at least partially) that one of our greatest saints, a Doctor of the Church clearly says there is a place for ALL in Christ. Perhaps my additional comments made this intention less clear, or perhaps some don't find Chrysostom as encouraging/inspiring as I do.

There will always be those whose starting point is one side of the coin (if you will) and those who start from the "other" side of the coin. Some will be spurred on by, or find their initial strength in feelings, others in thought and reason, but at some point, in my opinion, both these types of people would do well for themselves and those who may follow (in the case of founders) to take a peek at the opposite side of the coin and draw some strength there as well.

I tend to operate from "inspiration" intially and later (now that I'm older not TOO MUCH LATER) from "reason" so I make sure (when I need to make important decisions)that I have included in my support system those whose first recourse is to reason rather than inspiration. It balances me and works well for me. It's not a perfect system and I am not a perfect person - I've made my share of bad decisions even when I've sought council and tried to cover every base....it's then that I find most comfort in the words of Chrysostom......"He will make much of your effort and extol your intention".....and the words of Merton ..."I believe the desire to please you does in fact please you"... those words are for all of us....for Jkaands, for EWIE and CA sitting in the corner (perhaps chocolate-less..but if someone did bring the chocolate, let me know - I'm joining you over there) and for Nunsense and Gemma forging ahead into the "new", and for the countless multitudes living somewhere in the middle - always fighting themselves not being quite sure which way to go and maybe being just a wee bit paralyzed by it all....but loving God and his people just the same.

We all express our love for God (and people) differently - it is unjust and unkind to imply that someone does not love God because they do not express their love for God as another person does....God receives each one's expression without prejudice.

Peace

[gloriagurl]

[quote name='Gemma' post='1544859' date='May 27 2008, 12:30 PM']I found one really good rule online, written by a Dominican. Has three parts, and it alternates between Spanish and English.

Then I found that of St. Columba; and the OSB Cam oblates; and the Carthusians.

Would there be any others?

Blessings & thanks for your assistance,
Gemma[/quote]

Gemma, do you have St. Francis' Rule for Friars Living in Hermitage? It's separate from his other rule(s) and I have a copy if you need it...it is also available online and I'm sure I could find the site(s) for you that post it. It is a very short, simple and wonderful rule (IMHO).

Also do you know about Raven's Bread? I think I've heard you mention that you do, but I can't remember for sure. They are a wealth of information and have many rules available - either for downloading or purchasing (donation I believe) - I believe they even have one or two rules written by people currently approved as diocesan hermits. Fr. Roman's Rule for the Hermits of Bethlehem is in a book form available from Amazon, it's title is [u][/u]A WAY OF DESERT SPIRITUALITY[u][/u] (I'm sure it's available from places other than Amazon as well). Also the yahoo group Catholic Hermits has available for printing, the guidebook to becoming a diocesan hermit written by a FSPA Sister (Marlene Weisenbeck, FSPA, Ph.D, JCL) from the Office of Consecrated Life in the Diocese of La Crosee Wisconsin...I believe it is free for dowloading/printing - I no not believe it is still available directly from the diocese. The Guidebook is very well written and contains a ton of practical information right down to how to set up a chart of accounts for a non-profit corporation.

I'm also here looking at a piece titled [u][/u]EREMITEC RULE OF LIFE[u][/u], I don't know who wrote it and I haven't read it, but I can tell you that it is an approved rule for a hermit - a Bishop of the Diocese of Austin's signature is on it....this is apparently a result of a revision made by the Bishop who signed it...the date is 1998.

If you'd like, I'd be happy to scan the document and email it to you....if so, please send me your email address.

Peace

[Gemma]

[quote name='gloriagurl' post='1544892' date='May 27 2008, 01:05 PM']Gemma, do you have St. Francis' Rule for Friars Living in Hermitage? It's separate from his other rule(s) and I have a copy if you need it...it is also available online and I'm sure I could find the site(s) for you that post it. It is a very short, simple and wonderful rule (IMHO).

Also do you know about Raven's Bread? I think I've heard you mention that you do, but I can't remember for sure. They are a wealth of information and have many rules available - either for downloading or purchasing (donation I believe) - I believe they even have one or two rules written by people currently approved as diocesan hermits. Fr. Roman's Rule for the Hermits of Bethlehem is in a book form available from Amazon, it's title is [u][/u]A WAY OF DESERT SPIRITUALITY[u][/u] (I'm sure it's available from places other than Amazon as well). Also the yahoo group Catholic Hermits has available for printing, the guidebook to becoming a diocesan hermit written by a FSPA Sister (Marlene Weisenbeck, FSPA, Ph.D, JCL) from the Office of Consecrated Life in the Diocese of La Crosee Wisconsin...I believe it is free for dowloading/printing - I no not believe it is still available directly from the diocese. The Guidebook is very well written and contains a ton of practical information right down to how to set up a chart of accounts for a non-profit corporation.

I'm also here looking at a piece titled [u][/u]EREMITEC RULE OF LIFE[u][/u], I don't know who wrote it and I haven't read it, but I can tell you that it is an approved rule for a hermit - a Bishop of the Diocese of Austin's signature is on it....this is apparently a result of a revision made by the Bishop who signed it...the date is 1998.

If you'd like, I'd be happy to scan the document and email it to you....if so, please send me your email address.

Peace[/quote]

Wow, thanks for the leads. The SFdS rule for hermits--was that written for Mount Voiron (sp?). If so, another aspiring founder has been looking for it.

I'll have to check in to Raven's Bread. I've been living eremetical most of my adult life (since college, since I kept losing roommates. Only one ever persevered the entire year with me. The breaks of being Catholic on a "fundamentalist" campus), and should probably incorporate some ideas into my daily Lay Passionist life.

I've updated the Cloisterite website. Now has "Foundational Update" page. I couldn't believe the site has had over 5,000 hits!

Yes, please scan the document. My email address is foundress2003@yahoo.com

Blessings,
Gemma

[EWIE]

[quote name='Gemma' date='May 27 2008, 10:30 AM' post='1544859']
Then I found that of St. Columba; and the OSB Cam oblates; and the Carthusians.

Would there be any others?


[b]The eremitic Rule of St. Albert[/b][u][/u] is the shortest of the rules of consecrated life in existence in the Roman Catholic spiritual tradition. St. Albert Avogadro, a priest of the Canons Regular and Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, wrote the Rule in the in the early 13th century. If you don't have this one, I can copy it to you.

[b]The Rule of St Benedict[/b][u][/u] (fl. 6th century) is a book of precepts written for monks living in community under the authority of an abbot.

[b]The Rule of St. Augustine.[/b][u][/u]

[b]Ancrene Wisse [/b][u][/u](also Ancrene Riwle) or Guide for Anchoresses is a monastic rule (or manual) for anchoresses, written in the early 13th century.


[b]Calmoldese Hermits of MonteCarona,[/b][u][/u]
[url="http://camaldolese.org/pdfs/constitution.pdf"]http://camaldolese.org/pdfs/constitution.pdf[/url]


Resources =Canons Regular of New Jerusalem.

The Rule of St. Augustine

Saint Romuald’s Brief Rule : Immaculate Heart of Mary’s Hermitage Report

[EWIE]

I hit send too quickly and believe I may have lost a few in the process.

This is one of them...."The La Crosse Rule" for consecrated Hermits.
I'll see if I can find the others.
Blessings.

[gloriagurl]

[quote name='Gemma' post='1544932' date='May 27 2008, 01:50 PM']Wow, thanks for the leads. The SFdS rule for hermits--was that written for Mount Voiron (sp?). If so, another aspiring founder has been looking for it.

I'll have to check in to Raven's Bread. I've been living eremetical most of my adult life (since college, since I kept losing roommates. Only one ever persevered the entire year with me. The breaks of being Catholic on a "fundamentalist" campus), and should probably incorporate some ideas into my daily Lay Passionist life.

I've updated the Cloisterite website. Now has "Foundational Update" page. I couldn't believe the site has had over 5,000 hits!

Yes, please scan the document. My email address is foundress2003@yahoo.com

Blessings,
Gemma[/quote]

OK Gemma, I'll get the scanning done for you asap. The St. Francis I'm speaking of (whose Rule for Hermits I have) is Francis of Assisi, I'm thinking your abbreviation SFdS means St. Francis de Sales - yes? I don't have his rule. Do you want the "other" St. F's rule?

Here's the address for Raven's Bread...to get a list of their publications, you have to email them, but you can view newsletters online and there's a lot of information in each one (if I recall correctly, it's been a while since I read one)
[url="http://www.op.org/ravensbread/default.htm"]http://www.op.org/ravensbread/default.htm[/url]

Also - while I'm at it I"ll go ahead and scan the document from the Diocese of LaCrosse...it'lll take me a little longer but I think it's worth it for you, and if you don't want it you can always just delete it.

Peace

[EWIE]

[quote name='gloriagurl' date='May 27 2008, 02:17 PM' post='1545096'
Here's the address for Raven's Bread...to get a list of their publications, you have to email them, but you can view newsletters online

Gemma. I would say that Ravens Bread would be a must for you personally and for your work. Although it is only 4-6 pages (depending) there is so much in it and very much of it is [u]NOT[/u][b][/b] online. Also, it can be very inter-active.

Karen and Paul will send it also, if funds are not available, as some hermits donate extra $$$$ in order for any hermit who wants it, receives it.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1545010' date='May 27 2008, 07:53 PM']CA - your PM mailbox is full - I want to PM you![/quote]

You are the second person to have noticed that. It is not full any more - I have tidied it up.

My apologies for the misunderstanding. Sometimes I am not sure whether somebody is speaking to me personally or just describing their own experience.

[tnavarro61]

Greetings, Gemma! I've been visiting your site (your cloisterite) and I am so happy to have that future order.

I just have some questions, which I hope are not offensive. I just want some clarification:

1. I was just surprised to see that you are going to found lots of religious orders. I've never heard of that except from you. Don't you think it would be better to combine these proposed religious orders into one? Don't you think it's too early to plan future orders.

2. You seem to concentrate most on religious habit. I find this sentence from your site disturbing: Headdress--cloisters are literally on the sisters' minds . What do you mean here? Do you think it's better if your nuns will only have Jesus in their minds?

I have some more questions but I am going to read first more on your site to avoid disturbing you as I may ask you questions that are already answered.

God bless.

[Gemma]

[quote name='tnavarro61' post='1565982' date='Jun 10 2008, 01:17 AM']Greetings, Gemma! I've been visiting your site (your cloisterite) and I am so happy to have that future order.

I just have some questions, which I hope are not offensive. I just want some clarification:

1. I was just surprised to see that you are going to found lots of religious orders. I've never heard of that except from you. Don't you think it would be better to combine these proposed religious orders into one? Don't you think it's too early to plan future orders.

2. You seem to concentrate most on religious habit. I find this sentence from your site disturbing: Headdress--cloisters are literally on the sisters' minds . What do you mean here? Do you think it's better if your nuns will only have Jesus in their minds?

I have some more questions but I am going to read first more on your site to avoid disturbing you as I may ask you questions that are already answered.

God bless.[/quote]

Yes, they are disturbing questions--particularly number 2. The second question suggests idolatry of the cloisters. It also calls into question the competency of me as a founder, vocation director, and discerner of spirits, as well as the motivation of our aspirants.

I can guarantee that Jesus is the first and foremost motivation for all of us, and making reparation to Him, particularly in the Blessed Sacrament, while praying for vocations to not only the cloisters, but to our proposed charisms, and emerging charisms not of our founding. Nobody else is doing this as an apostolate.

If you're not satisfied with that answer, I suggest getting quiet, getting centered, and asking Our Lady of the Cloister herself for clarification.

Our proposed charisms will be founded from either the Cloisterites (the cloistered charisms) or the Congregation of Charity of the Miraculous Medal, better known as the CCMMs, who will found the active charisms. In the case of the latter, the proposed charisms will split off from the initiatives as specialization.

CCMM update: we have two active aspirants who are developing their apostolates at home; one recluse aspirant, who is discerning the recluse rule with me; and one lay CCMM aspirant, who is also discerning the guidelines for the laity with me.

Cloister Outreach is a city of God, with a safe harbor in which discerners may drop anchor, hence the ship's anchor behind Our Lady of the Cloister (imagine a 'prayerful' Immaculate Conception), who stands before a section of wall.

Other multiple founders: St. Joseph Cottolingo (14) and Blessed Don Orione (5).

Permit me to mention that these proposed foundations are for EFLR discerners. We will have the Traditional Latin Mass, now known as the Extraordinary Form of the Latin Rite (EFLR). Available EFLR communities for women can be counted on one hand--literally. EFLR discerners are relieved to find that Cloister Outreach will be offering so many possibilities; have complemented the habit designs; and are very pleased with the apostolates.

Blessings,
Gemma

Edited June 10, 2008 by Gemma

[Roseoftherese]

[quote name='Gemma' post='1566455' date='Jun 10 2008, 06:46 AM']Yes, they are disturbing questions--particularly number 2. The second question suggests idolatry of the cloisters. It also calls into question the competency of me as a founder, vocation director, and discerner of spirits, as well as the motivation of our aspirants.

I can guarantee that Jesus is the first and foremost motivation for all of us, and making reparation to Him, particularly in the Blessed Sacrament, while praying for vocations to not only the cloisters, but to our proposed charisms, and emerging charisms not of our founding. Nobody else is doing this as an apostolate.

If you're not satisfied with that answer, I suggest getting quiet, getting centered, and asking Our Lady of the Cloister herself for clarification.

Our proposed charisms will be founded from either the Cloisterites (the cloistered charisms) or the Congregation of Charity of the Miraculous Medal, better known as the CCMMs, who will found the active charisms. In the case of the latter, the proposed charisms will split off from the initiatives as specialization.

CCMM update: we have two active aspirants who are developing their apostolates at home; one recluse aspirant, who is discerning the recluse rule with me; and one lay CCMM aspirant, who is also discerning the guidelines for the laity with me.

Cloister Outreach is a city of God, with a safe harbor in which discerners may drop anchor, hence the ship's anchor behind Our Lady of the Cloister (imagine a 'prayerful' Immaculate Conception), who stands before a section of wall.

Other multiple founders: St. Joseph Cottolingo (14) and Blessed Don Orione (5).

Permit me to mention that these proposed foundations are for EFLR discerners. We will have the Traditional Latin Mass, now known as the Extraordinary Form of the Latin Rite (EFLR). Available EFLR communities for women can be counted on one hand--literally. EFLR discerners are relieved to find that Cloister Outreach will be offering so many possibilities; have complemented the habit designs; and are very pleased with the apostolates.

Blessings,
Gemma[/quote]

Gemma, she was trying not to make the questions sound offensive, and she was just wondering about them. She tried not to make them sound rude or anything, and you don't have to sound annoyed at her.

[Gemma]

[quote name='Roseoftherese' post='1566643' date='Jun 10 2008, 01:25 PM']Gemma, she was trying not to make the questions sound offensive, and she was just wondering about them. She tried not to make them sound rude or anything, and you don't have to sound annoyed at her.[/quote]


It's a man, Rose, and he also posted over on my blog. That's what's so annoying, esp. when the questions, as phrased here, are more accusatory.

Blessings,
Gemma