Purgatory: Who Believes It Anyway?

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Veridicus' post='1538553' date='May 23 2008, 03:34 PM']My understanding is that purgatory is [i]not [/i]'outside of time.' Heaven is eternal and outside of our undestanding of space and time, such that all eternity pans out as a singlular experience. There is no tomorrow or yesterday in heaven.

Don't forget that purgatory is 'not' heaven nor is it contained within heaven. They are two separate realms as far as I know and one of the major differences (besides the presence of God...) is time.

Purgatory on the other hand does have time, which is why our purgation can be efficacious. Purifying fire would only make sense in a temporal way. To take a modern example, working out at the gym is only efficacious because we exist in time and if we work hard over a long period of time, it pays off. I know somewhere else on the phorum there was a thread about purgatory where this temporal aspect was specifically mentioned. If only I knew where...[/quote]
Thanks - I think that makes sense. I just thought I'd read that time was different in Purgatory than on earth, though I don't guess that means there [i]isn't[/i] time in Purgatory.

Edited May 23, 2008 by Archaeology cat

[Deb]

I always try to remember to ask the Lord to let all the souls in purgatory to accompany me when I receive the Eucharist so that they may receive it spiritually to cleanse them. I also ask the Blessed Mother to walk with me and stand between her son as me as I am not worthy to receive directly. No idea where I got either one of those.

It is good to direct prayers to those in purgatory who have no one to pray for them, especially Priests and Religious.

The Blessed Mother said in response to a visionary that very few make it directly to heaven. Most will go through purgatory and first , if they don't go straight to hell.

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
[quote name='StColette' post='1538529' date='May 23 2008, 08:17 AM']You're correct Red . The souls in purgatory, the Church Suffering, can intercede for the souls on earth, the Church Militant, but they can not pray for themselves. The Church Triumphant, the souls in Heaven, can pray for the Church Militant and Church Suffering. And the Church Militant can and should pray for the Church Suffering and can ask intercession from the Church Triumphant.[/quote]
that's what i thought!

[quote name='Deb' post='1538712' date='May 23 2008, 10:22 AM']I always try to remember to ask the Lord to let all the souls in purgatory to accompany me when I receive the Eucharist so that they may receive it spiritually to cleanse them. I also ask the Blessed Mother to walk with me and stand between her son as me as I am not worthy to receive directly. No idea where I got either one of those.

It is good to direct prayers to those in purgatory who have no one to pray for them, especially Priests and Religious.

The Blessed Mother said in response to a visionary that very few make it directly to heaven. Most will go through purgatory and first , if they don't go straight to hell.[/quote]
i've also heard that we should offer spiritual communions and actual communions to the souls suffering in purgatory, for it is only thing that will quench their thirst in purgatory. i that thought too, that when i'm in purgatory, the Eucharist will give me relief, if only people remember to offer it for me.

[StColette]

Purgatory is considered outside of time and space as we understand it. There's a specific word for it and I can't think of it. At least that's what every theology class I took has told me. I asked Micah as well, just to get a second opinion, since we took different classes for the most part. I'm not at home with my books and notes at the moment. I'll look more into when I get home.

Edited May 23, 2008 by StColette

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='StColette' post='1538754' date='May 23 2008, 01:02 PM']Purgatory is considered outside of time and space as we understand it. There's a specific word for it and I can't think of it. At least that's what every theology class I took has told me. I asked Micah as well, just to get a second opinion, since we took different classes for the most part. I'm not at home with my books and notes at the moment. I'll look more into when I get home.[/quote]
You're thinking of the term aeveternity, or "aeveternal time." That's what Dr. Miravalle taught, anyway.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1538830' date='May 23 2008, 11:37 AM']You're thinking of the term aeveternity, or "aeveternal time." That's what Dr. Miravalle taught, anyway.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
how do you pronounce [u]that[/u]?

[StColette]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1538830' date='May 23 2008, 01:37 PM']You're thinking of the term aeveternity, or "aeveternal time." That's what Dr. Miravalle taught, anyway.[/quote]

Thank you!! but it is spelt aeviternity lol

[quote]the ordinary flow of events we experience here on earth, called <"time;"> the perpetual present that God experiences, called <"eternity;"> and the middle, less well understood state experienced by those in the afterlife, known as <"aeviternity.">

So the Church has never said that purgatory involves the same kind of time as we experience here on earth, or even time at all. Thus Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, no theological liberal, writes that purgatory may involve "existential" rather than "temporal" duration (cf. Ratzinger's book <Eschatology).> It may be someone one <experiences>, but experiences in a moment, rather than something one endures over time.[/quote]

[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/how2purg.htm"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/how2purg.htm[/url]

Edited May 23, 2008 by StColette

[StColette]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1538834' date='May 23 2008, 01:39 PM']+J.M.J.+
how do you pronounce [u]that[/u]?
[/quote]

av -

iternity - like eternity

apparently St. Thomas Aquinas called it a "mean" between time and eternity

Edited May 23, 2008 by StColette

[Lil Red]

[quote name='StColette' post='1538852' date='May 23 2008, 11:52 AM']av -

iternity - like eternity

apparently St. Thomas Aquinas called it a "mean" between time and eternity[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
thanks.

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1538230' date='May 22 2008, 10:52 PM']+J.M.J.+

oh Lord, me too!

very interesting. anything in particular you say?
[/quote]


"Heavenly Father, I offer you the most precious Blood of your divine Son Jesus, in union with all the Masses being said throughout the world today, for all the holy Souls in Purgatory."

According to St. Gertrude, a mystic, this prayer releases 1,000 souls from Purgatory. I also ask the holy souls to prayer for me because, as a few posters have mentioned already, their intercession is POWERFUL.

It's important to remember two things about the souls in purgatory:

1: They are holy. When you pray for them and ask for their intercession it's as good as having a saint on your side.

2: They are joyful. Even though their suffering is immense, they are joyful in the knowledge that they will be with God in Heaven. Unlike the souls in Hell who wail and gnash their teeth and curse God, the souls in Purgatory are grateful for the mercy of God and the cleansing of purgation.

Padre Pio said the following:

"The holy souls are eager for the prayers of the faithful which can gain indulgences for them. Their intercession is powerful. Pray unceasingly. We must empty Purgatory!"

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1538902' date='May 23 2008, 07:20 PM']"Heavenly Father, I offer you the most precious Blood of your divine Son Jesus, in union with all the Masses being said throughout the world today, for all the holy Souls in Purgatory."[/quote]
I that prayer.

[mortify]

I'm surprised many said atheists can make it to purgatory. Atheism is one of those things that goes against natural law, so if a native ignorant of Catholicism accepts atheism they are still culpable before God. And with regards to non-Catholics and non-Christians, I suppose people had in mind certain disbelievers who through no fault of their own are not Catholic.

Interesting non the less

[Madame Vengier]

[quote name='mortify' post='1539170' date='May 23 2008, 04:53 PM']I'm surprised many said atheists can make it to purgatory.[/quote]

Because only God knows the heart, that's the reason. And because no one is out of reach of his Mercy.

[mortify]

I don't think God's mercy is such that it overrides mortal sin, but it's a comforting thought in our weak state.

[Galloglasses]

Yes, I'd rather see the majority of the population into purgetory if possible. Rather then Hell. Also, God's mercy would extend to a person who has heard of the Christ of the Gospels and refused Him. I think thats what really damns a person. Other then offending the Holy Spirit outright.