Are Teachers Overpaid?

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='BG45' post='1545260' date='May 27 2008, 11:15 PM']Plus a lot of times teachers have to finance their own classrooms because what the school district will pay for is far from enough. Plus all that continuing education? A good deal of it the teacher might have to pay for if funds aren't enough. It's not unusual for my mother, for example, to pay hundreds a year for certain supplies...and we'll not even get into how taxes wreck that kind of salary, Winchester's done a good job of it.[/quote]
And when parents won't get supplies for their children, the teachers buy paper, pencils, etc so the children can do their work. And when some students steal supplies, the teachers must buy more (there isn't always a way to lock things up).

[quote name='BG45' post='1545260' date='May 27 2008, 11:15 PM']There is no overtime for time put in past the end of the school day, such as grading papers, writing lesson plans, cleaning the room for meetings, the meetings, parent-teacher conferences. There is no extra "hazard" pay for when an unruly child strikes a teacher and a teacher can not defend him or herself; and trust me this happens [b]a lot[/b].[/quote]
I was hit & kicked, and one of my friends got a concussion from a child throwing a rock on the playground. Tables & desks were overturned. Oh yes, and dealing with parents & students shouting at you, complaining to the principal instead of talking to you, racism (from all sides), etc.

[quote name='BG45' post='1545260' date='May 27 2008, 11:15 PM']Special education departments are often underfunded, and thus some disruptive students with special needs are left in the classroom and require more attention than the rest of the classroom. Sometimes unruly students (not necessarily special ed) pose a true danger to the teacher and to the fellow students...there is no extra pay for dealing with such.[/quote]
In FL they did away with ESE classrooms & put the kids in the normal classrooms. Without putting paras in there. Most of these teachers don't have ESE training & will have to get it, which generally means evening/summer classes.

[Winchester]

Where the hell is the person who created this thread?

[Autumn Dusk]

Good teachers deserve more than 60k. However, it shouldn't be 35-40k for fresh out of undergrad people. Why? becuase it just attracts a lower quality teacher. Why be a hotel manager when you are guaranteed 40k for your first year out of school...for 9 months work at that?

Unless you're a CS major you can't really expect to earn much more than 30k out of undergrad. (nurses/dr's need more than undergrad depending).

So are teachers overpaid. Yes and no. Its a field with a decent amount of money to be made and security right off the bat and it can be attractive to the wrong types.

[Deb]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1548369' date='May 29 2008, 02:28 PM']Good teachers deserve more than 60k. However, it shouldn't be 35-40k for fresh out of undergrad people. Why? becuase it just attracts a lower quality teacher. Why be a hotel manager when you are guaranteed 40k for your first year out of school...for 9 months work at that?

Unless you're a CS major you can't really expect to earn much more than 30k out of undergrad. (nurses/dr's need more than undergrad depending).

So are teachers overpaid. Yes and no. Its a field with a decent amount of money to be made and security right off the bat and it can be attractive to the wrong types.[/quote]


I think your teachers were probably overpaid.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Deb' post='1548415' date='May 29 2008, 03:28 PM']I think your teachers were probably overpaid.[/quote]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Generally speaking, teachers are WAY underpaid...especially religious education teachers...

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='djninja2005' post='1539623' date='May 23 2008, 11:41 PM']In the public schools yes, they are overpaid, depending on the district, but in the Catholic school system, they are not paid enough. (At least that's what some of the lay people at my school would say.)[/quote]

I don't think the quality teachers are paid nearly enough. Most of those circulating through the public school systems, probably because the information they give is not worth much. Though most of the time that's probably not their fault, just teaching what the syllabus requires. But as a general rule, the good teachers are not paid even close to what they deserve.

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote name='Deb' post='1548415' date='May 29 2008, 04:28 PM']I think your teachers were probably overpaid.[/quote]


Deb, please, this is not the "insult the person above you" thread

[XIX]

Oh. Zing. And...kinda true.

[Deb]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1548545' date='May 29 2008, 06:44 PM']Deb, please, this is not the "insult the person above you" thread[/quote]


I didn't think it was.

[XIX]

Well what was the point of your post if not to insult someone?


Anyways, teacher pay really depends on where you teach and in what capacity. The answer to "Are teachers overpaid" is simply that it depends. In what state do you teach? Public school or private school? High school, grade school, pre school? Are you a math teacher? etc. etc. etc.

Personally, I tend not to think that teachers should be paid more. A great teachers who loves his or her job is a priceless treasure. One bad teacher can ruin a kid's psyche for years. And if a public school get a bad teacher, they are stuck for like 20 years because of tenure. Catholic schools pay far less than public schools, but the lower salaries tend to naturally weed out the teachers who are only in it for themselves. People won't work for that kind of money unless they love what they do. It seems to me that by increasing teacher salaries, the government would be attracting lackluster teachers who are only in it for themselves and could care less about the children. Such people should work in a cubicle somewhere.

Anyways, I think a lot of the posters are looking at it from the wrong perspective. Maybe teachers do deserve to make more money, but we should definitely put the students' interests first. I think most good teachers agree that it's important to prioritize the kids ahead of themselves.

It is possible to support a family on a salary of, say, 50K (yes, pre-tax) even if you spouse is a full-time parent. It takes some creative budgeting and frugal spending, but if you save money and live simply (which a Catholic should do anyway), then you can totally support a family of four.

You'll feel the pinch, but hey, it's not giving unless it stings a little.

[Autumn Dusk]

[quote]It seems to me that by increasing teacher salaries, the government would be attracting lackluster teachers who are only in it for themselves and could care less about the children. Such people should work in a cubicle somewhere.[/quote]

This is what I was getting at. It takes time to be a good teacher. Some people have a natural talent but it still has to be refined and educated with time. Teaching is one of the only professions where a 21/22 year old can jump right into exactly what they want to be doing. It also has great starting salaries (comparatively), great benefits, a decent work day(esp at the under hs level), and many educational incentives like college loan forgiveness.
This all adds up to being overpaid. Their are fields that a 21/22 year old could get out into the workforce, namely computer science, and make over 35k. The next best out-of-undergraduate-college salary is teachers. If you get more education you can be a nurse and money just piles on from there. However, the idea that teachers are paid so much off the bat is what's created a crisis (as well as families not living up to what they should be). As teachers show good records and have students that report good things and do well the teachers should be rewarded with large pay increases. But only, like in every other job, after they've proven themselvs, not before.
Like trogdor said a bad teacher can ruin a child for YEARS. We have institutions churning out "teachers" en mass pushing out older more experienced teachers. (into a semi-comfy retirement). Pushing out of the older people may be needed in, say, the fast paced world of athletics or in finance, but teachers, no.

Edited May 30, 2008 by Autumn Dusk

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='XIX' post='1548734' date='May 30 2008, 03:33 AM']Personally, I tend not to think that teachers should be paid more. A great teachers who loves his or her job is a priceless treasure. One bad teacher can ruin a kid's psyche for years. And if a public school get a bad teacher, they are stuck for like 20 years because of tenure. Catholic schools pay far less than public schools, but the lower salaries tend to naturally weed out the teachers who are only in it for themselves. People won't work for that kind of money unless they love what they do. It seems to me that by increasing teacher salaries, the government would be attracting lackluster teachers who are only in it for themselves and could care less about the children. Such people should work in a cubicle somewhere.

Anyways, I think a lot of the posters are looking at it from the wrong perspective. Maybe teachers do deserve to make more money, but we should definitely put the students' interests first. I think most good teachers agree that it's important to prioritize the kids ahead of themselves.[/quote]
On the other hand one could argue that paying teachers less means that you don't get some of the truly qualified people, as they can make more elsewhere. I mean, they do try to entice professionals into teaching (especially with science & math). Of course, what the students need should be first, most definitely.

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1549231' date='May 30 2008, 02:26 PM']This is what I was getting at. It takes time to be a good teacher. Some people have a natural talent but it still has to be refined and educated with time. Teaching is one of the only professions where a 21/22 year old can jump right into exactly what they want to be doing. It also has great starting salaries (comparatively), great benefits, a decent work day(esp at the under hs level), and many educational incentives like college loan forgiveness.
This all adds up to being overpaid. Their are fields that a 21/22 year old could get out into the workforce, namely computer science, and make over 35k. The next best out-of-undergraduate-college salary is teachers. If you get more education you can be a nurse and money just piles on from there. However, the idea that teachers are paid so much off the bat is what's created a crisis (as well as families not living up to what they should be). As teachers show good records and have students that report good things and do well the teachers should be rewarded with large pay increases. But only, like in every other job, after they've proven themselvs, not before.
Like trogdor said a bad teacher can ruin a child for YEARS. We have institutions churning out "teachers" en mass pushing out older more experienced teachers. (into a semi-comfy retirement). Pushing out of the older people may be needed in, say, the fast paced world of athletics or in finance, but teachers, no.[/quote]
While I think it was a nice idea to offer alternative certification (which I went through), I also think it doesn't have the best track record, as you're putting people in a classroom with no teaching experience and expecting them to pick everything up along the way. Some alt cert programmes are run better than others, though.

[FreeSoul]

Teachers are both underpaid and undervalued.

The vocation of teaching is one a cornerstorne upon which a healthy society is built, without valued education, all of culture is affected. As a legitimate profession, the teacher should be paid at least as much as a doctor. The issue is not compensation, but how to create a culture in which the community (that includes teachers) values and invests in a culture of education.

I wonder how much money an executive at Coca-Cola or McDonald's makes. No matter how hard they work, they are ultimately polluting our minds with useless marketing and advertising, contributing to the obesity crisis, and profiting off of the poor who no doubt will spend money for a fast and inexpensive status symbol - and for what?

Where are our priorities? When we say 'are teachers overpaid?' What are we really saying about the value of education?

[Kirisutodo333]

[quote name='Autumn Dusk' post='1537930' date='May 22 2008, 09:32 PM']Teachers in the northeast are typically paid well. Overpaid? I dunno about that. A kindergarden teacher shouldn't get 45k a year but a high school science teacher may deserve that.[/quote]

Are you kidding me? Is this thread for real? There's actually people out there that think that 45K is a ridiculous amount of money? Hec, I know administrative assistants that make that much and your complaining that a Kindergarten Teacher (which is probably one of the most important jobs in the world) makes the pathetic salary of 45K? Teachers have to put up with so much #$%@ (like this thread for example) and have to literally raise the kids of wanna be mothers and dads. I can't believe there are people out there thinking that teachers are overpaid. Why don't you go try teaching? And while you are at it, go try running a school? Somebody who busts their rear in graduate school and pays their dues in administration for years deserves well close to six figures, which by the way is what normally a really good sales person makes. Overpaid teachers? Oh yeah right, that's why they are always driving those BMWs and sportscars...right.

I live in Atlanta, and the starting salary for some counties is 40K, and that is still low compared to let's say the Kroger Deli Manager who get's paid 44K. Wow, what an insult to a teacher. Hey guess what, you should be making less than that Deli Manager and putting up with out bratty kids. No thanks. $60K sounds like a great salary for our educators. More power to them!

Peace

Kiris